Well, where are we here. Weve heard from long term keepers, newbies (despite the request from the OP), breeders and from Richard, Carl and the 5 Icons (roll eyes). Weve had various opinions and no real conclusion. Weve had the OP dismiss his own OP by stating that his opinion is based on the opinion of others and not really his. Weve learned that there is a difference between W.C. and C.B. behavior. To me, I keep going back to what Mick wrote a long time ago, on a thread far, far away, Each individual tortoise has its own personality.
Are Leopard Tortoises Shy?
- Thread starter Tom
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onarock said:
Always so pleasant when you chime in. OP said no such thing, but that never stopped you before, why would it now? Your brand of comedy is just getting funnier and funnier. I'm laughing right now. Maybe you really are just misunderstood.
I really don't think we are missing the point that each and every tortoise is an individual with their own unique personalities, quirks, and various amounts and types of shyness. I think we can make some generalizations however or at least attempt to make them.
First off how the tortoise is raised will make a big impact on his behavior. Was it wild caught? Was it treated more like a pet growing up or as a wild animal kept in captivity? Is it an "only child" thus given more individual time, attention and chance for opportunities to be observed and worked with? Is this animal given a food reward for being "friendly" to further increase the chances of future "good" behavior? How much time does this animal daily get from humans? Is it being raise in an environment where it feels safe and secure? Those are just some factors that really stand out to me as to things that can impact individual shyness.
As was brought up before is just the definition of shyness. Is it shy if it withdrawals into it's shell? Or is it shy only if it then remains in the shell for over a minute? over three minutes? five minutes? ten? what amount of time?
Do we call it shy if it doesn't come running when it sees us? Is it shy if it does not accept food from your hand? Is it shy if it just prefers to act like a "natural" tortoise rather then a pet, so it ignores you and carries on doing it's on thing? We each have our own thoughts as to what shy is. We may even give different standards of the word depending on who we are talking to, why we are making the comments, or even which animal or species we are talking about.
Comparing sulcata to leopards is like comparing oranges to apples, both are fruit yet nothing alike. It's like thinking those oranges should be crunchy like the apples are. It's just not fair and it's taking away the importance and specialness of both items being compared.
However, folks do at times need to have a rough "guesstamation" of what they can expect from each species. I really liked the analogy somebody used of a sulcata more being a puppy and the leopard the older dog. It was a visual that almost every person from any country can clearly see. It shows that both can be good, but good in different ways and that it is unfair to think they both should fill the exact same niche or mold.
There is and never will be a black or white answer to this question of: are leopards shy. The answer is in varying shades of grey dependent upon the animal your looking at, it's environment, it's history, and the human's own perspective of them.
First off how the tortoise is raised will make a big impact on his behavior. Was it wild caught? Was it treated more like a pet growing up or as a wild animal kept in captivity? Is it an "only child" thus given more individual time, attention and chance for opportunities to be observed and worked with? Is this animal given a food reward for being "friendly" to further increase the chances of future "good" behavior? How much time does this animal daily get from humans? Is it being raise in an environment where it feels safe and secure? Those are just some factors that really stand out to me as to things that can impact individual shyness.
As was brought up before is just the definition of shyness. Is it shy if it withdrawals into it's shell? Or is it shy only if it then remains in the shell for over a minute? over three minutes? five minutes? ten? what amount of time?
Do we call it shy if it doesn't come running when it sees us? Is it shy if it does not accept food from your hand? Is it shy if it just prefers to act like a "natural" tortoise rather then a pet, so it ignores you and carries on doing it's on thing? We each have our own thoughts as to what shy is. We may even give different standards of the word depending on who we are talking to, why we are making the comments, or even which animal or species we are talking about.
Comparing sulcata to leopards is like comparing oranges to apples, both are fruit yet nothing alike. It's like thinking those oranges should be crunchy like the apples are. It's just not fair and it's taking away the importance and specialness of both items being compared.
However, folks do at times need to have a rough "guesstamation" of what they can expect from each species. I really liked the analogy somebody used of a sulcata more being a puppy and the leopard the older dog. It was a visual that almost every person from any country can clearly see. It shows that both can be good, but good in different ways and that it is unfair to think they both should fill the exact same niche or mold.
There is and never will be a black or white answer to this question of: are leopards shy. The answer is in varying shades of grey dependent upon the animal your looking at, it's environment, it's history, and the human's own perspective of them.
Well Jacqui, I think you just resolved the debate as far as I'm concerned. Besides Paul's post, this has to be the most insightful post I have seen on this topic. No offense to anyone in saying that, because we have all made valid points, those two posts really summed it up for me. All that is included in your 2nd and 3rd paragraph are what I've been suggesting by personailties being subjective. Thank you.
Generalizations are not bad in a species, like russains most russians I know, I have seen a lot are outgoing great personalities and often like people does that man every russian is like that? no of course not, are there russians who don't fit that description? yes there are but overall if someone was to ask my opinion of russians I would say that they are an outgoing tortoise with great personalities. FYI I can finally spell opinion now without the help of the spell checker a minor victory perhaps but still 
Out of the three I have two are pretty outgoing one is kind of shy but I think it is because she had a URI and I had to give her baytril she did not like two more coming next week let's see how they are
two more coming next week let's see how they are 
So, If I was someone who was looking to buy a babcocki from a local pet store or breeder
and I asked which one I should buy...Sulcata or a Leopard...then we are assuming that I'm going to purchase the Leopard to be my personal pet? Right? and not creating my own breeding colony...where I'm not going to be giving it much attention
Then should we say something a long the lines of...
"A leopard tortoise species and a Sulcata are two different types of tortoises. One gets big and the other not AS big etc.... And depending on how much interaction you give these two...whether it be hand feeding or being around you often, they MAY develop a friendly interactive attitude towards you."
and I asked which one I should buy...Sulcata or a Leopard...then we are assuming that I'm going to purchase the Leopard to be my personal pet? Right? and not creating my own breeding colony...where I'm not going to be giving it much attention
Then should we say something a long the lines of...
"A leopard tortoise species and a Sulcata are two different types of tortoises. One gets big and the other not AS big etc.... And depending on how much interaction you give these two...whether it be hand feeding or being around you often, they MAY develop a friendly interactive attitude towards you."
what does it matter if its a leo or a russian? Its deffo a 50% chance but then again can a tortoise described as being shy change over time with the owner? Are they having bad days or good days everyone has them even torts?
dav3 said:
Agree w/ this post 100%. There are days when Tico (a GPP) wants to walk up to me and outstrech his head to get a scratch on the head, while other days he wants nothing to do w/ me and will pay no mind to my beckoning for attention. Just thought I would share that.
I have no where near enough experience to say anything about a whole species of torts. But as w/ any creature, I'm sure there are some who are outgoing vs. shy, friendly vs. aggressive, curious vs. reserved. You can relate it to dogs as being the most common generalizations of animals: pitbulls = aggressive, boxers = playful, german shepards = loyal, bulldogs = stubborn, and so on and so forth.
I think in the end it's hit or miss.
I would like to hear from some people with CB VS. WC I know that in a previous post I stated that most russians I have seen which have been a lot have also all been WC. I wonder if being WC may make a difference?
Another big difference may be if they are inside or outside. For the most part my tortoises (all species, not just the Leopards), are much friendlier and less shy inside then outside.
Of course it does. Even in long term C.B. animals there is a acclimation period. The most shy tortoise I have is an adult gpp. I didnt want to use her as an example on this topic, because I didnt think it would be fair. She is 15 and has been living at the same place with the same keepers all her life. When I fist went up to see her she was very skidish, running for her Dogloo when me and my cousin walked in. Her old keeper said she doesnt like strangers. When I brought her here, a few months ago, all she did was hide. She is still a little skidish and I think its going to be a little while before she is comfortable. My second most shy tortoises is a 2 year old gpp. I think it must be related to Micks because it acts the same as his.
I think that W.C. animals definately have a longer acclimation period before they are used to people compared to C.B. animals. This goes for any animal. The same can be said for C.B. animals. The older they are when you move them, the longer the acclimation period. Of course, this is not true for all tortoises, just some personal observations over the years.
I think that W.C. animals definately have a longer acclimation period before they are used to people compared to C.B. animals. This goes for any animal. The same can be said for C.B. animals. The older they are when you move them, the longer the acclimation period. Of course, this is not true for all tortoises, just some personal observations over the years.
dmmj said:
Ok, I think using the word "shy" is anthropomorphizing the tortoises. I think we should look at it this way. Tortoises are naturally geared to retreat into their shell when a predator approaches, right? They are hard wired with this instinctual response. The word "shy" has too much feeling behind it, tortoises don't have emotion, (oh great, I just made some people mad, " Anyway, when we look at it from an evolutionary standpoint, we can understand that they are a prey animal by nature. Leopard tortoises have been hunted for God knows how long. It's a wonder why leopards tend to be on the flighty side. They are a wild animal, no matter how you raise them, this includes all other species of tortoise as well. I believe that leopards have evolved this "shyness" because of the constant barrage from predatory animals, and people. Their range is more exposed to the elements as well, they are more dependent on being alert and retreating to the safest place possible. If this is in fact true, it would explain why some leopards tend to be hesitant to trust their owners, wc or cb. What do you guys think? I'm tired and running out of brain power.
-Matt
" Anyway, when we look at it from an evolutionary standpoint, we can understand that they are a prey animal by nature. Leopard tortoises have been hunted for God knows how long. It's a wonder why leopards tend to be on the flighty side. They are a wild animal, no matter how you raise them, this includes all other species of tortoise as well. I believe that leopards have evolved this "shyness" because of the constant barrage from predatory animals, and people. Their range is more exposed to the elements as well, they are more dependent on being alert and retreating to the safest place possible. If this is in fact true, it would explain why some leopards tend to be hesitant to trust their owners, wc or cb. What do you guys think? I'm tired and running out of brain power. -Matt
Tom said:
I know its comedy, but this is even better.
You didnt write this?
Tom Wrote: I too would hope someone with little or no leopard experience would not chime in here, but I think some of that is unavoidable on a public forum.
Or this refering to Richard, Carl and the 5 Icons.
Tom Wrote: I don't expect this to end all debate on the subject, but since these are some of the people that I know and talk torts with, it should shed some insight on why my opinion of leopards is what it is.
LOL. Im not crazy right.
So, Tom, tell me again how the OP never stated this. Please dont accuse me of putting words in your mouth.
Again, its O.K., WE ALL read it. You base your opinion on the experience of others, and not your own experience.
Sincerely,
Night at the Improv.
Oh that's okay Paul. No need to argue anymore. You just keep on doing what you do and so will I. I hope your remaining days are enjoyable.
Okay girls, it's time to kiss and make up. You two are very brilliant people with differing opinions. Of course it's going to get heated, but take a step back and look at what you're arguing about, c'mon.......
-Matt
You two are very brilliant people with differing opinions. Of course it's going to get heated, but take a step back and look at what you're arguing about, c'mon....... -Matt
Well put Matt. Its just an online tortoise forum. I'm here for the fun of it.
Hey...I resent that! We're not JUST a forum. We're a group of folks who really like each other, and who LOVE to talk tortoise. There are even a few here who I call friend! So, we're not JUST a forum, we're THE Tortoise Forum!!
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