Babies Phayrei

johndesiles

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Good Morning

I'm glad I had the baby MEP
Parents you have identified as MEP
However, one third of babies represent the characteristics of the father (chest suture, one does not come)
During the day pictures

Best regards
 

johndesiles

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Plastron suture.jpg Plastron male MEP.jpg shell baby, identical to dad
Plastron suture.jpg Plastron male MEP.jpg
Dad was identified as MEP by emys breeder
 
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juli11

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Pretty cool baby's. I didn't understand if you breed them by yourself?
 

Yvonne G

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Great news, John!!! I'm so happy for you.

I guess this means that the dad is actually an intergrade, and not full phayrei.
 

johndesiles

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Thank you for your post yvonne

I had supplementary information on the origin of animals, it is MEP from Switzerland NC, MEP from parent.
It seems that a breeder emys identify the male as MEP, as he has all the feature, the color, the shape of the shell and the shape of the head and a massive mouth.

Emys breeder can you tell us more :)

Yvonne thank you for all the help that you bring me to the forum

bises
 

tortadise

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Fantastic. Do all the babies have the pectoral shield? Or are some a represented like the father? The pectoral scutes are definitely present in the male but seems not as pronounced as a typical MEP. could you get another picture of the males plastron like a further out photo. I'd think if they were integrades they would show in the offspring a little more.
 

johndesiles

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Thank you for your response tortadise
I have 35 baby and there just 5 identical to dad
I'll take pictures of babies in a few days, when the bag is vitelin absorbed.
what do you think?
but they all have the particularity of babies MEP, stained dark brown. and not gray as MEE
 

tortadise

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Well although the pectoral scutes are just shy of the interhumeral suture, I still believe that's a representative of a full phayrei. Only 4 of the 40+- hatchlings show this? You could do a phylogenic test on them to see. Your in France or Spain correct? I could look into some labs or universities that may be able to do it for you. Will require a blood draw by a vet and may cost some money for this information if you desire to do it.
 

johndesiles

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Thank you for your messages very very interesting
I am very interested, will you know a genetic laboratory for genetic identification;)
I agree with you, for me it seems MEP, but you never know?
 

HLogic

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Kelly, that reference concludes that both pectoral scute configurations belong to the same 'species'. In reality, the two were given subspecific differentiation before the writing of the text (http://www.reptilia.net/articulos_ing/029.pdf - see Taxonomy). The text indicates the two subspecies were considered to have full generic distinction - T. phayrei vs. M. emys and the difference was sexual dimorphism not a subspecific morphological trait. Additionally, the specimens mentioned were supposedly collected in the northwestern limits (Arakan, Assam & Cachar) of Mep range and it is known [now] that Mee do not exist there. (http://www.chelonian.org/ttn/archives/ttn5/pp2-6.shtml - see Range Map). I cannot offer a resolution to those inconsistencies but would suggest there was some confusion or inaccuracy. This may be best illustrated by the last statement of the article on page 144. --no offense intended but it is hazardous to use old references...

@johndesiles, have you had the female tortoise longer than 2 to 4 years? If not, is it possible the female was kept in the same enclosure with Mee? Perhaps something of that nature is responsible. It is also possible the male is 75% Mep and 25% Mee or some other mostly Mep intergrade.

...just trying to cover all bases...
 
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