Baby dead

[spud's_mum]

I'm so sorry for your loss

 

[Kori5]

I'm so sorry. It was a hard week for you. I hope everything goes well from now on .

 

[Pearly]

Will you be getting post mortem on him?

 

[Anyfoot]

Will you be getting post mortem on him?

No, not this time. I considered opening it up myself to have a nosey. May learn something, not sure yet. (Kids and Dawn probably won't want me to).
There's obviously a prolapse, so to my way of thinking , there can only be 4 main reasons. Diet, hydration, blockage or something just not right within the tort from day 1. If this 2nd tort lives on then it's a blockage or just wasn't right inside.

 

[Tom]

No, not this time. I considered opening it up myself to have a nosey. May learn something, not sure yet. (Kids and Dawn probably won't want me to).
There's obviously a prolapse, so to my way of thinking , there can only be 4 main reasons. Diet, hydration, blockage or something just not right within the tort from day 1. If this 2nd tort lives on then it's a blockage or just wasn't right inside.

Sometimes they will prolapse after death and its not related to the COD.

 

[Pearly]

I agree, which I'm thinking suggests dehydrated and pushing. He was 8wks old. First 4wks I've soaked him every day, then backed off to 3 soaks per wk.

Hmmm... I didn't even think to question the heat/humidity of the enclosure... But... This baby was a surprise... and you were seeting things up for him in a bit of a haste... Is some enclosure/equipment malfunction possible? Like overheating? But not to the point of heat stroke, just slow steady dehydrating heat...? Perhaps it maybe prudent to up the soaking frequency for the other baby for now while trying to figure this out

 

[Anyfoot]

Hmmm... I didn't even think to question the heat/humidity of the enclosure... But... This baby was a surprise... and you were seeting things up for him in a bit of a haste... Is some enclosure/equipment malfunction possible? Like overheating? But not to the point of heat stroke, just slow steady dehydrating heat...? Perhaps it maybe prudent to up the soaking frequency for the other baby for now while trying to figure this out

No malfunction at all. Heat at 80 to 88f. Air humidity at 80%+. In the moss it's 99%.
Already going back to one soak per day.
And move any moss from near the water dishes. Occasionally i find a strand of moss In the water, so maybe he sucked some in whilst drinking or maybe and its a big maybe, the moss poisoned the water. But that would have to happen in a 24hr cycle. Fresh water ever day in both dishes.
Diet is any combination of dandilion, sow thistle, hibiscus leaf, broad plantain, narrow plantain,grape leaf and alfalfa. I have fed wild garlic on occasion too every day. All from my garden.
And alternately for 6 days a week they get a piece of fruit and mushroom no bigger than there head. So 3 pieces of fruit and 3 pieces of mushroom per week. One day just the weeds. Never fed animal protein yet.

One other thing I thought of whilst my mind has been working overtime. I bought 3 hibiscus plants 9 to 10 months ago. One is in my indoor enclosure. Growing fast and blooming. I've been feeding this one. 3 days ago I fed some leaves for the first time off the 2 hibiscus i have in the garden. These 2 plants are nowhere near as developed as the other that's indoors. Leaves are literally about 1.5" in size. Could these 2 plants still have potential pesticides in them because they haven't developed as much. Just thoughts.
@Tom. Point taken. Thanks.

 

[Tom]

One other thing I thought of whilst my mind has been working overtime. I bought 3 hibiscus plants 9 to 10 months ago. One is in my indoor enclosure. Growing fast and blooming. I've been feeding this one. 3 days ago I fed some leaves for the first time off the 2 hibiscus i have in the garden. These 2 plants are nowhere near as developed as the other that's indoors. Leaves are literally about 1.5" in size. Could these 2 plants still have potential pesticides in them because they haven't developed as much. Just thoughts.

This cannot be ruled out as a possibility. Systemic pesticides can remain deadly toxic to plant eating bugs for 12 months. And I don't think these toxins just magically disappear at day 366 either.

 

[Anyfoot]

This cannot be ruled out as a possibility. Systemic pesticides can remain deadly toxic to plant eating bugs for 12 months. And I don't think these toxins just magically disappear at day 366 either.

Is it as simple as, the faster the plant grows the faster the pesticides will dissapate?

 

[ZEROPILOT]

You've had babies before?
In Redfoot, what is the mortality rate like? Most live? (IN CAPTIVITY)

 

[Tom]

Is it as simple as, the faster the plant grows the faster the pesticides will dissapate?

The pesticide is in the soil. The plant takes it up and assimilates it into its tissues. As long as pesticide remains in the soil, new growth will contain it. Too many variables to accurately predict how all of that will play out. That is why I just don't use store bought plants.

 

[Anyfoot]

You've had babies before?
In Redfoot, what is the mortality rate like? Most live? (IN CAPTIVITY)

I'm not sure what the mortality rate is for redfoot hatchlings.
Only an experienced redfoot breeder can answer that question.
My previous babies were all 4months old and 60g+ in weight. This guy was 37g at death. Hatched at 21g.

 

[Pearly]

Is it as simple as, the faster the plant grows the faster the pesticides will dissapate?

I know they need good "flushing". I put my new plants repotted in new soil and assume that all the waterings over time eventually flush the chemicals out. When repotting I try to get as much of their soil out as possible sometimes will even rinse the root ball under the hose if I know the plant can take that rough treatment and let them just sit and grow in my garden for few months. Now, I have NEVER ever fed any of those plants to my babies even after all that time/flushing. Meaning, I don't pick the leaves/flowers off those plants to chop them up to be included in their salad that day. If they eat those plants, it's only what they graze on themselves rather than me putting those plants on their feeding slate. My babies each things finely chopped to this day. Tucker weighs only little over 12 oz. I want to be sure he gets enough nourishment. That said, my babies staple diet has been store bought greens, plus mazuri alternated with couple of other pelleted tort commercial food which I add to their fresh things to their breakfast daily. I think with our species we've got it easy, I think it'd be much more challenging to come up with good diet for strictly herbivorous tortoise. Plus I think with those little babies, you just never know.

 

[Pearly]

I'm not sure what the mortality rate is for redfoot hatchlings.
Only an experienced redfoot breeder can answer that question.
My previous babies were all 4months old and 60g+ in weight. This guy was 37g at death. Hatched at 21g.

So he was growing, putting on weight...

 

[Tom]

I know they need good "flushing". I put my new plants repotted in new soil and assume that all the waterings over time eventually flush the chemicals out.

This would reduce the amount of new pesticide taken up by the plant for new growth, but it does not remove the toxins that are already assimilated into the plants existing tissues.

 

[Pearly]

This would reduce the amount of new pesticide taken up by the plant for new growth, but it does not remove the toxins that are already assimilated into the plants existing tissues.

Thus the reason I DO NOT incorporate them into the feedings. They are only planted in the enclosure AFTER the quarantine by which time if the torts bite into it, it's hopefully ok. Mine are not huge grazers though. They mostly graze on snails rather than plants

 

[BrianWI]

I have the last remaining traceable flock of a certain breed of turkeys here. I have had a miserable year with those. I have 3 babies that made it to come out of the brooder, one yet in. Out of 20 I hatched. I had parents crush hatching eggs, an incubator shoot to 130F on hatch day, and some mystery deaths. And my only Tom has been fairly ill, may never recover 100% and may never breed again (hoping one poult is a Tom). Sh!t certainly does happen!

 

[Anyfoot]

I have the last remaining traceable flock of a certain breed of turkeys here. I have had a miserable year with those. I have 3 babies that made it to come out of the brooder, one yet in. Out of 20 I hatched. I had parents crush hatching eggs, an incubator shoot to 130F on hatch day, and some mystery deaths. And my only Tom has been fairly ill, may never recover 100% and may never breed again (hoping one poult is a Tom). Sh!t certainly does happen!

Wow Brian, that's s**t alright.
"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger" so they say.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Sorry to read about your bad week, Craig.
You must be feeling awful.
Poor torts.
i'm very sad now.

 

[Anyfoot]

Sorry to read about your bad week, Craig.
You must be feeling awful.
Poor torts.
i'm very sad now.

It's done now mate, Onwards and upwards.