Burmese Brown Baby

[Diane The Texan]

I have a baby Burmese Brown here in Houston, 5 inches long.

Once he is big enough to keep track of in my backyard, I plan to keep him outside (w/ a ceramic lamp in a tort house for Fall/Winter, bringing him in when it freezes).

Until then, I keep him inside in a longish dish pan with a Styrofoam house, a towel area, a shallow water pan and sticks/leaves all on the floor. He never comes out of his toweling or house. Each morning, I have to get him, put him in lukewarm water for 10 min (he always tries to climb out of it) and stick his nose in soaked tort pellets or collard green leaves. He does not each much and then goes right back to his house or toweling. Is this normal?

He seems to eat well only every other day, 1/day. He does not show interest in sweet potatoes, zucchini, squash or cactus pad I purchased at Fiesta, a Mexican market. I don't think I have the standard plants they like in my backyard (hibiscus, dandelions). What else can I feed him?

 

[methos75]

I just purchased one from a breeder in Houston and mine is pretty much the same way, tends to just be how they are till they get more settled in.

 

[Diane The Texan]

What are you feeding yours that he seems to be eating well? How long do you have yours in water each day?

 

[Tom]

I have a baby Burmese Brown here in Houston, 5 inches long.

Once he is big enough to keep track of in my backyard, I plan to keep him outside (w/ a ceramic lamp in a tort house for Fall/Winter, bringing him in when it freezes).

Until then, I keep him inside in a longish dish pan with a Styrofoam house, a towel area, a shallow water pan and sticks/leaves all on the floor. He never comes out of his toweling or house. Each morning, I have to get him, put him in lukewarm water for 10 min (he always tries to climb out of it) and stick his nose in soaked tort pellets or collard green leaves. He does not each much and then goes right back to his house or toweling. Is this normal?

He seems to eat well only every other day, 1/day. He does not show interest in sweet potatoes, zucchini, squash or cactus pad I purchased at Fiesta, a Mexican market. I don't think I have the standard plants they like in my backyard (hibiscus, dandelions). What else can I feed him?

Your tortoise needs a proper large closed chamber with the correct substrate and the correct heating and lighting. There is no dishpan that is large enough to house a 5 inch tortoise in. He is not eating because you are not housing him correctly and his temps are too cool.

Towels are not a suitable substrate, and styrofoam has no place in a tortoise enclosure as they can eat it and it could cause an impaction.

Are you sure of the species? Burmese browns cost a lot of money, and most people that buy them learn how to house, feed and care for them ahead of time. It seems unlikely to me that someone would spend the money on such a tortoise and then put it in a dishpan with towels and styrofoam. Can we see a picture of the tortoise and enclosure? That will help us get you the correct care info and ensure a happy healthy tortoise.

When the time comes, don't use a CHE for heat outside. It will slow burn the top of the carapace on a larger tortoise. Use a mini radiant oil heater, or a combination of a Kane mat on the floor of the insulated tortoise house and a radiant heat panel mounted over head. Here are two examples:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

Double Door Night Box

As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[methos75]

I really didn't see any of the post about the enclosure but yeah, these require pretty specialized care, you need to maintain humidity above 80% while keeping temps pretty warm. I keep mine in a 50 gal Rubbermaid tub with about 5 inches of mixed peat moss, Plantation Soil, cypress mulch, and sphagnum moss. I even put a greenhouse tent over it today just to better keep in and maintain heat and humidity. I pour in a galleon of water every Sat using pvc pipes to get the bottom layer wet and mist the enclosure twice daily. My biggest worry now is getting him and his substrate too wet. Parts of the enclosure are pretty marshy and in my research I've seen mixed opinion on how wet emys should be.

As to feeding, I give mine a pretty good variety daily of mixed greens, Mazuri, ZooMed forest tortoise food, purina layer crumble mixed into rephasy, and a bit of fruit daily after his soaks. Seems like a lot, but I just recently purchased him so I'm right now I'm just more focused on getting him into a feeding schedule and ensuring he eats. I soak him about 30 minutes a day then place him into a tub just big enough for him and his food bowl so I can make sure he eats because he will not eat in his enclosure yet, chart what he is eating, and generally observe him for possible issues.

Once he is back in his enclosure he will sorta of bask, most he gets under his bulb, lifts his front and head up as far as possible towards it, and sits there for 3-5 minutes then he is off exploring a bit till he heads over to a little nest he dug behind a Pothos plant and stays there till the next morning. He is alert in his little hidey hole and watches everything, but he doesn't venture from it.

 

[Tom]

I really didn't see any of the post about the enclosure but yeah, these require pretty specialized care, you need to maintain humidity above 80% while keeping temps pretty warm. I keep mine in a 50 gal Rubbermaid tub with about 5 inches of mixed peat moss, Plantation Soil, cypress mulch, and sphagnum moss. I even put a greenhouse tent over it today just to better keep in and maintain heat and humidity. I pour in a galleon of water every Sat using pvc pipes to get the bottom layer wet and mist the enclosure twice daily. My biggest worry now is getting him and his substrate too wet. Parts of the enclosure are pretty marshy and in my research I've seen mixed opinion on how wet emys should be.

As to feeding, I give mine a pretty good variety daily of mixed greens, Mazuri, ZooMed forest tortoise food, purina layer crumble mixed into rephasy, and a bit of fruit daily after his soaks. Seems like a lot, but I just recently purchased him so I'm right now I'm just more focused on getting him into a feeding schedule and ensuring he eats. I soak him about 30 minutes a day then place him into a tub just big enough for him and his food bowl so I can make sure he eats because he will not eat in his enclosure yet, chart what he is eating, and generally observe him for possible issues.

Once he is back in his enclosure he will sorta of bask, most he gets under his bulb, lifts his front and head up as far as possible towards it, and sits there for 3-5 minutes then he is off exploring a bit till he heads over to a little nest he dug behind a Pothos plant and stays there till the next morning. He is alert in his little hidey hole and watches everything, but he doesn't venture from it.

Long fibered peat moss will be eaten and it can cause impaction. The dirt-style peat moss can burn their carapace. If your plantation soil is coco coir, then it is safe, but messy.

Cypress mulch works. Fine grade orchis bark is best.

 

[methos75]

Hell didn't know peat moss could cause damage. Thanks, I'll have to change it.

 

[Tom]

Hell didn't know peat moss could cause damage. Thanks, I'll have to change it.

I had a friend that was trying it out on some leopards that he was raising up. It was cheap in bulk and seemed similar to coco coir or soil, so he gave it a try. It burned their plastrons horribly. He removed it and replaced it with coco coir and the damage eventually healed up and became less noticeable over time as they grew. They were in an open topped enclosure in a humid room, and the peat was only slightly damp. It wasn't like shell rot on a RF from wet substrate. That was all I needed to see.

 

[methos75]

To the TV, this right now is my standard post soak meal. Today he has some grated Sweet potato, Mazuri, squash, a bit of banana, turnip greens, Romaine, Bok Choy, beet leaves, and layer crumble. I just mixed it all together and fed him in a seperate tub so he isn't distracted.

 

[MEEJogja]

That does appear to be a 'burmese brown'. Re: your observation about a big feed every other day and spending lots of time hunkered down, that's the same with mine. They are active in the early mornings, wandering around and showing interest in changes to their enclosure for perhaps half an hour, then go back into their hide until afternoon.

We prep a salad for them every other day with a base of greens, some fruit/mazuri/protein/all of the above depending on the day. The following day they are pretty inactive and maybe just nibble on some leaves we make sure are always available.

There is lots wrong about the way you are keeping this tort, please follow the others advice and read the caresheet. This website is also very good: https://mountaintortoise.com/

 

[Diane The Texan]

Your tortoise needs a proper large closed chamber with the correct substrate and the correct heating and lighting. There is no dishpan that is large enough to house a 5 inch tortoise in. He is not eating because you are not housing him correctly and his temps are too cool.

Towels are not a suitable substrate, and styrofoam has no place in a tortoise enclosure as they can eat it and it could cause an impaction.

Are you sure of the species? Burmese browns cost a lot of money, and most people that buy them learn how to house, feed and care for them ahead of time. It seems unlikely to me that someone would spend the money on such a tortoise and then put it in a dishpan with towels and styrofoam. Can we see a picture of the tortoise and enclosure? That will help us get you the correct care info and ensure a happy healthy tortoise.

When the time comes, don't use a CHE for heat outside. It will slow burn the top of the carapace on a larger tortoise. Use a mini radiant oil heater, or a combination of a Kane mat on the floor of the insulated tortoise house and a radiant heat panel mounted over head. Here are two examples:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

Double Door Night Box

As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...

tortoiseforum.org

I purchased him for $300. Was told Burmese Brown match up best for Houston outdoor living. Was told I could keep him outside most year ‘round except when it gets the coldest. Was told to provide a wet hide which I thought I was doing. There’s water on the floor with the sticks and leaves. I keep my house around 70° with my heater on during the winter ( a little bit cooler at night). I asked the Kane ppl about a Kane mat and they said only the adjustable one is recommended, not the affordable $100 version).

 

[Diane The Texan]

That does appear to be a 'burmese brown'. Re: your observation about a big feed every other day and spending lots of time hunkered down, that's the same with mine. They are active in the early mornings, wandering around and showing interest in changes to their enclosure for perhaps half an hour, then go back into their hide until afternoon.

We prep a salad for them every other day with a base of greens, some fruit/mazuri/protein/all of the above depending on the day. The following day they are pretty inactive and maybe just nibble on some leaves we make sure are always available.

There is lots wrong about the way you are keeping this tort, please follow the others advice and read the caresheet. This website is also very good: https://mountaintortoise.com/

What fruit? What is Mazuri? What kind of protein? I was told no spinach or broccoli.

Just more conflicting advice, too.
Mountaintortoise.com says to soak in water every few days but someone here said daily plus daily misting. I have no idea if my tort is getting enough water based on this. I put him in warm water daily and I'm lucky if he stays in it for 5 min.

 

[Diane The Texan]

What are you feeding yours that he seems to be eating well? How long do you have yours in water each day?

he eats collard greens and soaked tort pellets well but only every other day. Can I feed him bamboo shoots from the grocery store? I saw bamboo shoots on a list for Burmese Browns.

 

[methos75]

That enclosure is just all wrong, it's just his coffin to be honest. What are his temps like, if the house is only 70 degrees then he is way too cold. He needs access to higher temps and a temperature gradient so he can better thermoregulate. He needs to soak in warm water every day for at least 20 minutes, put him in a tub so he cannot get out of it. And honestly, misting that sort of enclosure every hour wouldn't be enough. You need substrate that holds humidity and a way to prevent it from escaping. That's why closed chambers are so recommended for raising baby tortoises, this is especially crucial with a species like this that requires high humidity.

 

[TheLastGreen]

Welcome! Sorry if all this news sounds sudden.
Sadly most places give the wrong info, so you'll need to follow these caresheets

Care Information

mountaintortoise.com

www.tortoiseforum.org

Closed "Chambers"

Been meaning to do this one for a while now... Over the years I have kept a lot of reptiles in a lot of different ways. I've learned a lot of stuff about a lot of species. Since finding and joining this forum almost two years ago, I've learned a TON more. Now I'm not just stumbling around...

www.tortoiseforum.org

 

[Diane The Texan]

That enclosure is just all wrong, it's just his coffin to be honest. What are his temps like, if the house is only 70 degrees then he is way too cold. He needs access to higher temps and a temperature gradient so he can better thermoregulate. He needs to soak in warm water every day for at least 20 minutes, put him in a tub so he cannot get out of it. And honestly, misting that sort of enclosure every hour wouldn't be enough. You need substrate that holds humidity and a way to prevent it from escaping. That's why closed chambers are so recommended for raising baby tortoises, this is especially crucial with a species like this that requires high humidity.

Such conflicting advice. That’s why this tort raising is so difficult.
I certainly understand forcing mine to stay in warm water longer but the Burmese brown expert I purchased from doesn’t keep the babies in an enclosed, inside container. He brings them in only when it’s freezing outside. He keeps them outside on the ground with a wire mesh structure over them to protect them from predators. I believe he has a different substrate so I need to know what that is that I can find easily here in Houston.

 

[zovick]

Such conflicting advice. That’s why this tort raising is so difficult.
I certainly understand forcing mine to stay in warm water longer but the Burmese brown expert I purchased from doesn’t keep the babies in an enclosed, inside container. He brings them in only when it’s freezing outside. He keeps them outside on the ground with a wire mesh structure over them to protect them from predators. I believe he has a different substrate so I need to know what that is that I can find easily here in Houston.

Did you buy your tortoise from John Bailey? If so, follow his advice carefully. John is a breeder from Houston and an expert on the care of the mountain tortoises. Here is a link to his web site: https://mountaintortoise.com/

 

[MEEJogja]

What fruit? What is Mazuri? What kind of protein? I was told no spinach or broccoli.

Just more conflicting advice, too.
Mountaintortoise.com says to soak in water every few days but someone here said daily plus daily misting. I have no idea if my tort is getting enough water based on this. I put him in warm water daily and I'm lucky if he stays in it for 5 min.

Mazuri is just a brand of tortoise pellets. The ones you have are probably fine. There are lots of posts here on diet, you can start simple and try your tort on things recommended on this forum to introduce variety. You can follow diet advice aimed at redfoots as the requirements are similar.
Papaya, strawberries, dragon fruit are all favourites of mine and can be fed in moderation along with many others. Protein wise I give boiled quail eggs more than anything else. Yours is tiny however so I can't advise on amount or whether it can handle the shell.
Manouria Emys are supposedly fairly cold tolerant but I live in the tropics so have not tested this. I have also never given bamboo shoots.
Good luck and please post updates

 

[Tom]

I purchased him for $300. Was told Burmese Brown match up best for Houston outdoor living. Was told I could keep him outside most year ‘round except when it gets the coldest. Was told to provide a wet hide which I thought I was doing. There’s water on the floor with the sticks and leaves. I keep my house around 70° with my heater on during the winter ( a little bit cooler at night). I asked the Kane ppl about a Kane mat and they said only the adjustable one is recommended, not the affordable $100 version).

All of that is true for an adult. Not a baby. A baby needs to be set up in a large closed chamber with warm controlled temps, UV lighting and the correct substrate.

Then you make a large safe outdoor enclosure and put the baby outside for a couple hours a day when the weather is nice, with a 30-40 minute soak when its time to come back in. Over time, as the baby grows, you can give it more and more outside time until you eventually leave it outside full time with the heated shelter, but latch the door closed every night for safety.

The regular Kane mat will be fine because you are going to use it with a thermostat, and also because it has built in thermostats to prevent it from ever getting too hot. That is the only kind I use. Its also important to make the box big enough so that the tortoise can be on or off the mat, but still inside the heated shelter. Remember that the Kane mat alone will not be enough to keep a 4x4x2 foot box warm. You also need the radiant heat panel. Both can run on the same thermostat. Or save some money and use the mini radiant oil heater from Walmart for $40. You still need the same thermostat, and this method will take up some floor space, but it also works and is very efficient in an insulated box. But all over ratios is at least a year or two away...

 

[Jan A]

What fruit? What is Mazuri? What kind of protein? I was told no spinach or broccoli.

Just more conflicting advice, too.
Mountaintortoise.com says to soak in water every few days but someone here said daily plus daily misting. I have no idea if my tort is getting enough water based on this. I put him in warm water daily and I'm lucky if he stays in it for 5 min.

You should be doing his soaks in a container he cannot climb out of, but it is good for him to try. The physical movement (like a human treadmill) usually helps them poop & pee, as well as giving the ones sleeping all day some exercise which they need to digest their foods. Soaks for the young should be 20-30 minutes in luke warm water daily, keeping the water warm throughout the soak.

The added benefit for having them poop & pee in their soaks is less cleanup for you in their enclosure. It gives you a chance to see if they're drinking water in their soaks or have visible urates in their pee. Urates can be a symptom of under-hydration.