Burrowing?

[Ray--Opo]

Here is a question. With the hot summer Opo is burrowing again. My worry is a cave in. In my condition I would never be able to dig Opo out.
Also when they build house's here. They bring in 3 to 4 ft of fill to elevate the property because of flooding with hurricanes. So I feel that isn't stable ground.
It is all sand and I am afraid that if the ground gets water logged. That there would be a better chance of a cave in.
So the question is should I let Opo dig a burrow or not?

 

[wellington]

I don't have a sulcata, but if I had the ground like you described and whatever condition you are in that you couldn't do anything to help a cave in, I would not let him.

 

[Kayleigh Smith]

Here is a question. With the hot summer Opo is burrowing again. My worry is a cave in. In my condition I would never be able to dig Opo out.
Also when they build house's here. They bring in 3 to 4 ft of fill to elevate the property because of flooding with hurricanes. So I feel that isn't stable ground.
It is all sand and I am afraid that if the ground gets water logged. That there would be a better chance of a cave in.
So the question is should I let Opo dig a burrow or not?

I would let him burrow because it is natural and gets them out of the sun improving health and preventing sunburn or shell damage. I would say after it gets too far or deep do your best to cover it up and have him dig at it again or at a new spot. The bets thing to do if possible is to purchase a LOT of soil and have it packed down and let him build his own burrow that can go for as long as he wants it to!

 

[wellington]

I would let him burrow because it is natural and gets them out of the sun improving health and preventing sunburn or shell damage. I would say after it gets too far or deep do your best to cover it up and have him dig at it again or at a new spot. The bets thing to do if possible is to purchase a LOT of soil and have it packed down and let him build his own burrow that can go for as long as he wants it to!

Welcome to the forum. Not sure that's the best advice, specially for someone who already knows the kind of dirt/yard they have and knows they would've able to help the tortoise should there be a calpse.
Most members tortoises don't seem to burrow as it is, or don't let their tortoises burrow. When it's life could be in danger, it's not the thing to do!

 

[TammyJ]

This is a kind of hard one, to prevent him from doing what comes naturally, but it's for his own good. Maybe you could come up with something to distract him from his burrowing urges...but what?

 

[Megatron's Mom]

I think you should make him a secure burrow. I've seen posts on here where they show step by step the burrows and they make an easy open lid if the torts ever need to be removed by their keepers.

 

[Cathie G]

I've lived in Florida and a burrowing tortoise could hit water not very far deep and drown easily. I couldn't believe how shallow that could be when digging for a project. It might have been well work. In Florida where it took place it was only a few feet down. That would depend on where you are in Florida and even the season. It's not worth the chance!. Besides that even though we are trying to give our tortoises a completely natural life style, we can't fully do that. And do we want to? Mother nature isn't always a nice mother. Our pets don't have to be completely wild anymore so they have a better chance to live a long life.

 

[Ray--Opo]

I think you should make him a secure burrow. I've seen posts on here where they show step by step the burrows and they make an easy open lid if the torts ever need to be removed by their keepers.

I had a burrow that I made for Opo. He used it one summer no problem. Then he decided to dig down deeper the next year.
So I had to block off. I guess I could do another but pour the floor with concrete. The walls were two course high of cinder blocks.

 

[Ray--Opo]

I've lived in Florida and a burrowing tortoise could hit water not very far deep and drown easily. I couldn't believe how shallow that could be when digging for a project. It might have been well work. In Florida where it took place it was only a few feet down. That would depend on where you are in Florida and even the season. It's not worth the chance!. Besides that even though we are trying to give our tortoises a completely natural life style, we can't fully do that. And do we want to? Mother nature isn't always a nice mother. Our pets don't have to be completely wild anymore so they have a better chance to live a long life.

I worried about that also. Around here in Florida when they build a new home. They bring 3 to 4 ft of fill dirt before they build. The gopher tortoise here in Florida must know not to go to deep when building their burrow. But they make their burrows in virgin land with tree roots. I figure the roots must give the ground more integrity.

 

[Megatron's Mom]

I had a burrow that I made for Opo. He used it one summer no problem. Then he decided to dig down deeper the next year.
So I had to block off. I guess I could do another but pour the floor with concrete. The walls were two course high of cinder blocks.
View attachment 358835

That might be a good idea. The concrete might also keep it cooler.

 

[Len B]

That might be a good idea. The concrete might also keep it cooler.

The problem I see using a concrete floor and cinder block walls is it won't drain properly and may flood out with extended heavy rains. Which Florida can get at any time of the year. I've kept sulcatas much farther north than you for many years and build their above ground burrows where they are shaded during the hottest summer months where they can retreat to actually cool down during the hottest parts of the day. Granted these are well insulated houses are insulated mostly for protection from winter cold but also keeps their inside temps lower during the summer hot temperature. I don't have a burrowing problem with adult sulcatas.

 

[Ray--Opo]

The problem I see using a concrete floor and cinder block walls is it won't drain properly and may flood out with extended heavy rains. Which Florida can get at any time of the year. I've kept sulcatas much farther north than you for many years and build their above ground burrows where they are shaded during the hottest summer months where they can retreat to actually cool down during the hottest parts of the day. Granted these are well insulated houses are insulated mostly for protection from winter cold but also keeps their inside temps lower during the summer hot temperature. I don't have a burrowing problem with adult sulcatas.

I guess I could use treated lumber planks for the floor and gap them for drainage. The burrow I made in the picture. Had duro rock then 1 1/2" styrofoam insulation, plus all the dirt and sod. When it was hot outside, it would stay between 75 to 80 degrees. Thought I had the perfect setup. Like I said it worked for one summer. Then Opo realized he could burrow under the cinder block.

 

[Tom]

I have two points:
1. Its not likely to collapse, and if it did, the tortoise would just walk/dig up and out at will. They are tanks, and their oxygen requirements are surprisingly low, and they can still breathe enough in a collapse.
2. Len's suggestion of an above ground insulated night house replaces the burrow and gives the tortoise a cooler retreat on a hot summer day and a warmer retreat on the rare cold winter night. It also protects the tortoise from ants, rats, raccoons, stray dogs, and anything else that would bother him at night, every night. In your rainy, wet, humid climate, it also provides a dry area to get out of the torrential rains that hit your area during hurricane season from June to November. Seems like the clear way to go:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Cathie G]

I worried about that also. Around here in Florida when they build a new home. They bring 3 to 4 ft of fill dirt before they build. The gopher tortoise here in Florida must know not to go to deep when building their burrow. But they make their burrows in virgin land with tree roots. I figure the roots must give the ground more integrity.

That's an interesting subject to Google. Gopher tortoise burrows depth, length, and how many burrows in their territory etc. Sulcotta also.

 

[Cathie G]

I worried about that also. Around here in Florida when they build a new home. They bring 3 to 4 ft of fill dirt before they build. The gopher tortoise here in Florida must know not to go to deep when building their burrow. But they make their burrows in virgin land with tree roots. I figure the roots must give the ground more integrity.

And of course you got me thinking and so... so far I've found the gopher tortoise doesn't live where I did which is the everglades. Also Okefenokee or in other words extensive wetlands areas. it would I guess depend on where you live in Florida... Even though I live in Ohio, I still like the idea that I can go outside and find my little Sapphire somewhere in his pen without digging to Hades to find the little dufess.

 

[Ray--Opo]

And of course you got me thinking and so... so far I've found the gopher tortoise doesn't live where I did which is the everglades. Also Okefenokee or in other words extensive wetlands areas. it would I guess depend on where you live in Florida... Even though I live in Ohio, I still like the idea that I can go outside and find my little Sapphire somewhere in his pen without digging to Hades to find the little dufess.

I live 30 miles south of Cape Canaveral. A friend of mine lives a few miles away from me. His house was built when they weren't bringing in 3 to 4 ft of fill before building. He digs down about 4 ft and hits water. So I figured I must be 7 to 8ft from the hitting water. I would say the deepest Opo has dug is about 5'.
I think I have asked you this before. In the early 90's I worked in Defiance Ohio. Is that near you?
I can laugh at this now. I was a drug and alcohol addict worked in Defiance Ohio in the basement of the foundry, operating a peice of machinery that was called a manipulater. It was about 115° but I sat in a cab that had air conditioning. I think my foreman put me down there. Sorta out of sight out of mind. I was a good worker and always went to work. So as long as I kept those 2 requirements of employment, he left me alone.
I am 20 years clean now!
Thanks by the grace of God!
Defiant and manipulative I certainly was.

 

[Cathie G]

I live 30 miles south of Cape Canaveral. A friend of mine lives a few miles away from me. His house was built when they weren't bringing in 3 to 4 ft of fill before building. He digs down about 4 ft and hits water. So I figured I must be 7 to 8ft from the hitting water. I would say the deepest Opo has dug is about 5'.
I think I have asked you this before. In the early 90's I worked in Defiance Ohio. Is that near you?
I can laugh at this now. I was a drug and alcohol addict worked in Defiance Ohio in the basement of the foundry, operating a peice of machinery that was called a manipulater. It was about 115° but I sat in a cab that had air conditioning. I think my foreman put me down there. Sorta out of sight out of mind. I was a good worker and always went to work. So as long as I kept those 2 requirements of employment, he left me alone.
I am 20 years clean now!
Thanks by the grace of God!
Defiant and manipulative I certainly was.

Well I'll have to look up Defiance Ohio but I'm pretty sure I don't live very near there because I don't know exactly where it is compared to me. Lucky you though that Opo has only tried 5' so far hahaha. I've been reading and I'm pretty sure his next game will be trying to dig maybe 10'. Some of them can even go 25'. Especially since they are the 3rd largest tortoise in the world or something like that. I couldn't believe it when I saw someone dig a hole on ground I was living on in Florida and hit water it was less than 4'. You could tell because there was a gap and then water. The land was on top of the Biscayne aquafer. So I'm glad to say your instincts are correct like Wellington said. Now I gotta go look up Defiance Ohio

 

[Cathie G]

Well I'll have to look up Defiance Ohio but I'm pretty sure I don't live very near there because I don't know exactly where it is compared to me. Lucky you though that Opo has only tried 5' so far hahaha. I've been reading and I'm pretty sure his next game will be trying to dig maybe 10'. Some of them can even go 25'. Especially since they are the 3rd largest tortoise in the world or something like that. I couldn't believe it when I saw someone dig a hole on ground I was living on in Florida and hit water it was less than 4'. You could tell because there was a gap and then water. The land was on top of the Biscayne aquafer. So I'm glad to say your instincts are correct like Wellington said. Now I gotta go look up Defiance Ohio

I can't believe Defiance Ohio's nickname is Shell Town and it's not very near me..

 

[Ray--Opo]

I have two points:
1. Its not likely to collapse, and if it did, the tortoise would just walk/dig up and out at will. They are tanks, and their oxygen requirements are surprisingly low, and they can still breathe enough in a collapse.
2. Len's suggestion of an above ground insulated night house replaces the burrow and gives the tortoise a cooler retreat on a hot summer day and a warmer retreat on the rare cold winter night. It also protects the tortoise from ants, rats, raccoons, stray dogs, and anything else that would bother him at night, every night. In your rainy, wet, humid climate, it also provides a dry area to get out of the torrential rains that hit your area during hurricane season from June to November. Seems like the clear way to go:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

I basically have the same setup. But instead of wood, I used expanded foam board and to make some of the foam board panels sturdier. I used 1 1/2" angle iron. I will show some pictures when I am done. I got the box to a point that it is usable for Opo. But I still have some work to do. Need to hinge the top and front door. This last yr has been challenging with 3 hospital visits. Covid pneumonia, pneumonia and heart problems. I start to feel better than I would get hospitalized again. With missing a right hand and right leg above the knee. It makes it more difficult to get things done,plus I am a procrastinator.
My oldest son came down about a month ago and we were going to work on it. But going fishing became more important.
It's been almost two weeks since I got out of the hospital and I am almost up to par. I will have it done before winter comes.

 

[Ray--Opo]

Well I'll have to look up Defiance Ohio but I'm pretty sure I don't live very near there because I don't know exactly where it is compared to me. Lucky you though that Opo has only tried 5' so far hahaha. I've been reading and I'm pretty sure his next game will be trying to dig maybe 10'. Some of them can even go 25'. Especially since they are the 3rd largest tortoise in the world or something like that. I couldn't believe it when I saw someone dig a hole on ground I was living on in Florida and hit water it was less than 4'. You could tell because there was a gap and then water. The land was on top of the Biscayne aquafer. So I'm glad to say your instincts are correct like Wellington said. Now I gotta go look up Defiance Ohio

It's just off of 24 halfway between Toledo and Ft. Wayne