Calling on indian star owners residing in INDIA

ashish · Oct 8, 2013

Re: basic help please....

Pls let me know wht means pyramid ing

Sent from my GT-I9100G using TortForum mobile app

simba_king · Oct 25, 2013

Hi Shanu..
I am very much impressed with your effort to help out the people having Stars..
I am also from India and proud to have a baby star about 5-6 months old and about 2 inches in length.
I am confused after reading many of blogs, website and forums to care about the star tortoise.

my baby star eats only cucumber when I put other foods like green grass, dudhi, Hibiscus leaves, cabbage etc, it does not eat.

He is active and seems healthy but i am worried about its food as it doesn't eat anything except cucumber.

I keep him in direct sun light for 2-3 hours daily.
I don't give additional supplements to it.

and can I wash him with warm water?

waiting for your reply.
Thank You.

Yvonne G · Oct 25, 2013

I find it interesting that so many of our tortoise-keeping friends in India use cucumber as a staple food in the diet.

I don't know the names of greens sold in markets in India, but I do know that cucumber is mostly water and is not a good staple for a tortoise's diet. I think you should try to wean the tortoise off of it by chopping the cucumber up in very tiny pieces (or putting it through a blender until it is mush), then mix it in with some greens that are also chopped up in small pieces. As time goes on, slowly, very slowly, add less cucumber and more greens until after a couple months you have stopped adding cucumber at all.

roby77 · Oct 25, 2013

simba_king said:
Hi Shanu..
He is active and seems healthy but i am worried about its food as it doesn't eat anything except cucumber.

Same problem here, my little guy is EXTREMELY STUBBORN! Refuses to eat anything but Cucumber and Zuchini (Tori/Turai). I tried being a strict parent, not offering anything buy hibiscus leaves & flowers for two days, but it had an adverse effect on me, not him! At last, I got too worried and fed him cucumber!

simba_king · Oct 26, 2013

Thanks for advice @ Yvonne G...
I will try it and post the result ....

simba_king · Oct 26, 2013

roby77 said:
I tried being a strict parent, not offering anything buy hibiscus leaves & flowers for two days, but it had an adverse effect on me, not him! At last, I got too worried and fed him cucumber!

Same here Roby..
I also tried to be strict and offered other greens and crushed hibiscus leaves but at last I had to give him his favorite "Cucumber". then after I hadn't tried to be strict

Preet917 · Oct 26, 2013

Yvonne G said:
I find it interesting that so many of our tortoise-keeping friends in India use cucumber as a staple food in the diet.

Count me out on that one.
The staple food I provide my stars is fenugreek and cluster beans which are a good source of calcium, fiber, an optimal proportion of protein and low phosphorus content. They've been with me since April and have never shown any signs of illness or any behavior worth worrying about.

Yvonne G said:
I don't know the names of greens sold in markets in India, but I do know that cucumber is mostly water and is not a good staple for a tortoise's diet. I think you should try to wean the tortoise off of it by chopping the cucumber up in very tiny pieces (or putting it through a blender until it is mush), then mix it in with some greens that are also chopped up in small pieces. As time goes on, slowly, very slowly, add less cucumber and more greens until after a couple months you have stopped adding cucumber at all.

For nutritional facts on indian vegetables, you can refer to the link below.

http://www.fitjog.com/nutrition-charts/indian-food-nutrition-charts.php

I use this site as a standard reference chart before I include a new vegetable in my tortoises' diet.

SonalKay said:
Hi,

Moss has been a part of the family since late September last year. He is a feisty little tortoise who knows and takes advantage of his size, big eyes and cuteness to the hilt. Moss spends most of his day sleeping in one of his two hides.

Everyday, Moss sleeps for around 20 hours, basks for two hours, soaks for 30 minutes, is forced to walk around and exercise for 30 minutes...and spends atleast an hour to make up his mind about all of the other activities!

His diet includes cucumber, green peas, aloe vera, cactus, hibiscus leaves/flowers, and greens such as salad leaves, spinach and coriander. His night hide is fashioned out of a milk crate with his space made out of an upturned mud-baked chulha and a substrate of red soil found commonly here--- which I use for gardening as well and a bed made of warm cloth and Ashoka tree leaves (pic to follow). His day hide is a shoe box with a garage made of child-safety-approved Lego blocks. He is soaked in the afternoon with warm/cold water as per the weather and he is made to exercise during tea time while the whole family sits around and adores him. Moss, on the other hand, butts his way around and tries to climb up the soft belly of my dog, Sandy.

We have had Moss for almost nine months now. And they have been fun and nightmarish (literally...with both my husband and I having had bad dreams about Moss slipping away like a naked cartoon tortoise while we are bathing him). For further peace of mind, could you good people please answer a few queries:

1) What is his age and is he growing at a normal rate?
We have measured his shell size at:
Oct'12: 3.2 cms (h), 6.9 cms (l), 5.5 cms (w)
Dec'12: 3.5 cms (h), 7.1 cms (l), 5.8 cms (w)
Mar'13: 4 cms (h) 7.5 cms (l), 6 cms (w)
The latest measurements will be updated in the last week of June.

2) It has started raining heavily in Pune and there is no sunlight most days. Does he need artificial lighting or can he get by on what's natural? He could also be getting cold. So, could you please tell me what the tortoise core body temperature is?

3) Apart from the cuttlefish bones, is there any other natural calcium supplement? Coz the pet stores here do not stock nor understand what I am asking for. Any Hindi names for cuttlefish?

Thanks,
Sonal

I cannot comment on your first question given the fact that I haven't keenly observed exact growth patterns in my Indian star tortoises Joshua and Kaleb.
However, regarding your second question, I would suggest you to take a deep breath and relax. Don't fret about trivial issues. Pune's climate is well suited for your tortoise. When it does get too cold, you can always provide some warmth using a standard incandescent tubelight. You don't require any special lighting, just a standard white tubelight should suffice.
My tortoises have been with me since April and believe it or not, they are tough reptiles and not fragile and easily prone to illness as may be suggested on innumerable websites.
You have the best terms of the equation to a tortoise's good heath in your favour. Climate and food.
And I believe you can handle the shelter part of it so there's nothing to be worried about.
You may on the other hand review your tortoise's diet.
Before you decide to feed your tortoise a certain vegetable, I would recommend you first keep a few important points in mind.
Always aim for vegetables with high calcium and fiber content, low phosphorous content and medium proportion of protein.
As a reference you can make use of the link I've provided below.
It's a chart which provides the nutritional facts of Indian vegetables.
http://www.fitjog.com/nutrition-charts/indian-food-nutrition-charts.php

Good luck with your little one.

alicia040782 · Jun 3, 2014

Hi are you still active.. I m new to forum n unable to reach u

alicia040782 · Jun 3, 2014

ashish said:
Re: basic help please....

Pls let me know wht means pyramid ingView attachment 58162

Sent from my GT-I9100G using TortForum mobile app

by my research i can tell it is turning of shell into pyramid like crowns i can see some in your pic too.. Its sign of a disorder related to metabolism.. Meaning tortoise is not well fed.. However bit of crowning is fine.. But may be u need a check on your buddy's diet

shanu303 · Jun 3, 2014

@alicia040782 yes we are still very much active

and Welcome to TFO

alicia040782 · Jun 3, 2014

shanu303 said:
@alicia040782 yes we are still very much active
and Welcome to TFO

thanks... My Torty is very little but almost of two years now.. N was born at my in laws place.. His mom was very old, and since his father was stolen she stopped eating n started laying unfertilized eggs, so we left her to wild with heavy heart.. As she was not eating.. Torty is perfectly fine n is very small like 2.5 to 3 inches n he s the only baby we got in around 20 years.. He seems fine n feeds on locally available weeds as i live in Rajasthan.. I got info on those weeds through a website informing about star tortoise in their habitat.. N theses weeds seem to work good on him.bt i don't know there name.. He also munches on dead leaves when out on a walk.. He s very small so i can't. Make him home outside.. As i oftern notices crows around when he s walking.. What should i do? For indoor good home??

alicia040782 · Jun 3, 2014

simba_king said:
Hi Shanu..
I am very much impressed with your effort to help out the people having Stars..
I am also from India and proud to have a baby star about 5-6 months old and about 2 inches in length.
I am confused after reading many of blogs, website and forums to care about the star tortoise.

my baby star eats only cucumber when I put other foods like green grass, dudhi, Hibiscus leaves, cabbage etc, it does not eat.

He is active and seems healthy but i am worried about its food as it doesn't eat anything except cucumber.

I keep him in direct sun light for 2-3 hours daily.
I don't give additional supplements to it.

and can I wash him with warm water?

waiting for your reply.
Thank You.

simba_king said:
Same here Roby..
I also tried to be strict and offered other greens and crushed hibiscus leaves but at last I had to give him his favorite "Cucumber". then after I hadn't tried to be strict

cucumber is a big no no.
has a bad effect in long term.. Will shorten life of ur tortoise

unicorn · Jul 12, 2014

Dear Shanu,

I'm so glad to have stumbled upon you and grateful that you set off this much needed thread of informative conversation. I now know that i'm in the right place just when i most needed to be.

I'm very new here, so pl. forgive any mistakes in replying, etc as i'm still exploring the place.

By the way, i just got myself two baby (maybe a few months old) Indian Star Tortoises. They came as present from a close friend of mine. Now, the problem is- I got no clue on how to care for tortoises, let alone stars. Its not that i have never rescued animals, i have had good experiences with dogs, pigeons, ducks, barbets etc., but tortoises- never.

I would be very grateful if you experienced guys here, help me out by letting me the basics first, like-
1) how and where to house them? i live in an apartment and plan to keep the babies in my balcony in a plastic tub. Are they prone to falling off from there? i mean, should i 'tortoise proof' my balcony, cos there are gaps in the railings (though they'd be housed in a tub)?
2) do they need substrate?
3) how frequently must i feed them?
4) should water be readily available to them at all times (in a shallow dish, of course!)?
5) how to clean their enclosure (in this case, a tub)?
6) any other DOs and DON'Ts, that I, as first time tortoise parent should be aware of?

Thanks a lot, folks and apologise for so many questions. I'm just too excited and want to get it right.

PS: I live in Bengaluru, Karnataka in India.

shanu303 said:
i've been viewing different posts and threads where one or the other owners living in india are seeking an advise from star owners in INDIA...
and the prime reason for that is most of the advise, help articles, terminology(except for the general ones) don't apply here in india.... it seems to be the irony that the star is native to India and India lacks the most crucial needs, accessories, necessities etc. So i thought instead of posting things in scrambled ways in different threads why not create a new thread that would be centred to help and solve issues of people like us living in india......

so i'm calling on all star owners living in india to give a little bit of intro about you and your tort( its age, weight, size etc) and where you live ( like state or even better .. city) , pictures of your star, enclosure, what diet you feed them etc........ this info would help us asses each other, solve each other's issues and problems and also teach us new better was of keeping our stars.......

So let's see how many Star owners from INDIA!!!

I'm Shanu and i live in Jaipur Rajasthan, INDIA

i have a 10 year old MALE Indian star tortoise natively belonging to Kutch Gujarat....... i rescued him from a friend of my friend.... and he was previously wild caught and that explains his pyramiding.....but he's still very handsome

Here is Max:
View attachment 41321

and this is his outdoor enclosure:

His Diet:
hibiscus flower and greens
cilantro(dhaniya)
fenugreek(methi) in winter
cucumber(kheera)
lawn grass( variety)

shanu303 · Jul 12, 2014

Hello @unicorn Welcome to TFO

i really appreciate your effort of joining this forum for the welfare of your new shelled buddies... first of all i'd like to request some pics of your stars so as to get better assessment ....
let's solve your doubt's issues one by one...
• the Enclosure :
you mentioned that your stars are small and you'd like to keep them in tub.... it's a great idea for your small ones.... just make sure that the
1) substrate in the tub should be soil (preferably garden soil) which is free from Pesticides or any kind of chemical treatment.....Substrate
is extremely necessary....
2) the tub should be large i mean as big as you can afford but not below the minimum... well i'd say the minimum for 2 is 4feet by 4feet...
and i think such large tubs are expensive so what i suggest is you buy wooden planks which are 12 inches wide, 4 feet long and 1/2 inch
thick. buy four of them and make a box... then place that box in your balcony and fill it with soil 3-4 inches deep. you should also cover
the wooden box with some kind of wired mesh with holes large enough to let the sunlight through.... this is to protect your stars from
birds and other animals/pests....(trust me this protection is required till your stars are small)
here's the type of mesh i'm talking about :

3) also provide hiding spots.... you can use plastic gardening pots and cut them in half... this is to provide shade from direct sunlight as
tortoises are cold blooded and they require cool and hot areas to thermoregulate....
4) also place some real or fake plants in the enclosure(not necessary but good for torts).... in real ones you can have
spider plant :

Hibiscus :

Just place small plants only, in small pots.... other ornamentals will also do BUT No Money Plant... its toxic

• Water Dish
1)water dish should be provided always in the enclosure....
2) it should be shallow so as to prevent them from drowning......
3) it should be wide so that they can easily come in and soak themselves whenever they want....
4)dig up some substrate and place the water dish so the rim aligns with the substrate level....
5) you can use the trays used under garden pots to prevent water spilling...

the dish used under the pot in this pic...
6)just make sure whatever water dish you provide... it is shallow enough so that your stars can easily get in and out without
drowning
7) change the water in the dish twice daily to prevent contamination (theses minor things matter as torts are highly sensitive and
we don't have certified reptile vets around)
• Feeding and Diet :
1) Diet
hibiscus flower and greens
cilantro(dhaniya)
fenugreek(methi) in winter
cucumber(kheera)
lawn grass( variety)
Mulli ke patte/Radish greens
Mogra ke phool/ Jasmin flowers and leaves (moderately)
2)Feeding
feed them 3 times a day in small quantities..... and in the beginning they won't even touch the above
mentioned menu.... don't worry... just chop and mix the above mentioned stuff with what they eat currently or what
they like..... slowly increase the amount of leaves and flowers and greens and reduce amount of what they like....
they'll get used to it... for example my Star would only eat cucumber in the beginning.... what i did is chop the hibiscus
flowers and leaves and other greens and mix with chopped cucumber.... made a salad and then i fed it to Star.... he got
used to it and now he eats most of the greens and leaves..... but still he hogs upon cucumber like a pig lol :tort:

in the beginning there might be some wastage as your stars won't eat all... but its ok... do trial and error and find out
the amount they eat.....

• Sunlight: ~This is really important~
1) keep them in sunlight as much as possible but also provide shade as i mentioned earlier... bring them in
when it gets too hot... at least 4-5 hours of sunlight is required for the proper development of their
bones.... and proper usage of the calcium.

•Humidity this is not an issue since you are living in Bangalore

•Daily Soaks 1) soak your stars twice daily for 15 minutes in a small tub or container where they can't escape...
2) the water should be lukewarm in winters and normal in summers...
3) water level should be just till the junction of the lower and upper shell or simply below their mouth/face
4)usually they will defecate while soaking.... so just clean them after they have done their job...

• Cleaning the enclosure: if you use the soil as substrate just remove an inch of top layer and replace it once a month....
and if you use a tub just use the normal water and some liquid soap..(i use hand wash for soaking container)

• Don'ts 1) avoid handling the stars as much as possible... especially in the beginning as they are not yet acclimated and can get
stressed easily.....
2) don't let them roam openly in you house as they are small and can get stepped upon or can get into extreme places and corners...
they are pretty good at hide&seek especially in Indian Homes (speaking by personal experience )

so everything is covered... i know this might sound a lot of money.... just do as much as possible.... and follow the essentials..... but this much amount of money is worth spending on such delicate and wonderful creatures,,,...

anything else you can freely ask and you can also PM me....

shanu303 · Jul 12, 2014

@alicia040782 where do you live in Rajasthan ??

unicorn · Jul 13, 2014

Wow Shanu,

You have no idea how grateful I am. Thanks a lot, friend for so patiently answering all my questions and further giving me your valuable tips on care for the precious stars. I have a few more doubts-
1) Must you soak them even if it is cloudy, gusty, windy and raining outside?
2) can you also feed them other commonly available veges & greens like shredded carrots, radishes, beet, mint leaves (pudina), cabbage, ladiesfinger etc.?
3) What should be their regular staple diet? would some methi leaves and some hibiscus leaves do?
now, for my last question- you may be astounded when you hear this ('cos i was!), but please help me get this right- my help said, you could also feed them with chapatis aka rotis. Is she right, can you?

Thanks a ton for explaining the dos and don'ts in such detail.
Oh, here are the pics of them, and they are named Humpty & Dumpty!

shanu303 said:
Hello @unicorn Welcome to TFO i really appreciate your effort of joining this forum for the welfare of your new shelled buddies... first of all i'd like to request some pics of your stars so as to get better assessment ....
let's solve your doubt's issues one by one...
• the Enclosure :
you mentioned that your stars are small and you'd like to keep them in tub.... it's a great idea for your small ones.... just make sure that the
1) substrate in the tub should be soil (preferably garden soil) which is free from Pesticides or any kind of chemical treatment.....Substrate
is extremely necessary....
2) the tub should be large i mean as big as you can afford but not below the minimum... well i'd say the minimum for 2 is 4feet by 4feet...
and i think such large tubs are expensive so what i suggest is you buy wooden planks which are 12 inches wide, 4 feet long and 1/2 inch
thick. buy four of them and make a box... then place that box in your balcony and fill it with soil 3-4 inches deep. you should also cover
the wooden box with some kind of wired mesh with holes large enough to let the sunlight through.... this is to protect your stars from
birds and other animals/pests....(trust me this protection is required till your stars are small)
here's the type of mesh i'm talking about :

3) also provide hiding spots.... you can use plastic gardening pots and cut them in half... this is to provide shade from direct sunlight as
tortoises are cold blooded and they require cool and hot areas to thermoregulate....
4) also place some real or fake plants in the enclosure(not necessary but good for torts).... in real ones you can have
spider plant :

Hibiscus :

Just place small plants only, in small pots.... other ornamentals will also do BUT No Money Plant... its toxic

• Water Dish
1)water dish should be provided always in the enclosure....
2) it should be shallow so as to prevent them from drowning......
3) it should be wide so that they can easily come in and soak themselves whenever they want....
4)dig up some substrate and place the water dish so the rim aligns with the substrate level....
5) you can use the trays used under garden pots to prevent water spilling...

the dish used under the pot in this pic...
6)just make sure whatever water dish you provide... it is shallow enough so that your stars can easily get in and out without
drowning
7) change the water in the dish twice daily to prevent contamination (theses minor things matter as torts are highly sensitive and
we don't have certified reptile vets around)
• Feeding and Diet :
1) Diet
hibiscus flower and greens
cilantro(dhaniya)
fenugreek(methi) in winter
cucumber(kheera)
lawn grass( variety)
Mulli ke patte/Radish greens
Mogra ke phool/ Jasmin flowers and leaves (moderately)
2)Feeding
feed them 3 times a day in small quantities..... and in the beginning they won't even touch the above
mentioned menu.... don't worry... just chop and mix the above mentioned stuff with what they eat currently or what
they like..... slowly increase the amount of leaves and flowers and greens and reduce amount of what they like....
they'll get used to it... for example my Star would only eat cucumber in the beginning.... what i did is chop the hibiscus
flowers and leaves and other greens and mix with chopped cucumber.... made a salad and then i fed it to Star.... he got
used to it and now he eats most of the greens and leaves..... but still he hogs upon cucumber like a pig lol
in the beginning there might be some wastage as your stars won't eat all... but its ok... do trial and error and find out
the amount they eat.....

• Sunlight: ~This is really important~
1) keep them in sunlight as much as possible but also provide shade as i mentioned earlier... bring them in
when it gets too hot... at least 4-5 hours of sunlight is required for the proper development of their
bones.... and proper usage of the calcium.

•Humidity this is not an issue since you are living in Bangalore

•Daily Soaks 1) soak your stars twice daily for 15 minutes in a small tub or container where they can't escape...
2) the water should be lukewarm in winters and normal in summers...
3) water level should be just till the junction of the lower and upper shell or simply below their mouth/face
4)usually they will defecate while soaking.... so just clean them after they have done their job...

• Cleaning the enclosure: if you use the soil as substrate just remove an inch of top layer and replace it once a month....
and if you use a tub just use the normal water and some liquid soap..(i use hand wash for soaking container)

• Don'ts 1) avoid handling the stars as much as possible... especially in the beginning as they are not yet acclimated and can get
stressed easily.....
2) don't let them roam openly in you house as they are small and can get stepped upon or can get into extreme places and corners...
they are pretty good at hide&seek especially in Indian Homes (speaking by personal experience )

so everything is covered... i know this might sound a lot of money.... just do as much as possible.... and follow the essentials..... but this much amount of money is worth spending on such delicate and wonderful creatures,,,...

anything else you can freely ask and you can also PM me....

shanu303 · Jul 14, 2014

@unicorn you're most welcome and i must say you have 2 really really cute stars....

and cute names too

• yes you have to soak them almost everyday (you can skip winters/ or just dry them instantly after lukewarm soak).... the whole point of soaking is hydration..... that keeps the shell smooth.... in rainy seasons you can soak them in lukewarm water or simply spray their shells twice daily... that'll do.

• carrots are ok, radish greens(mulli ke patte ) rather than the radish itself, beet root Greens rather than the beet root, they'll never ever eat mint leaves as the odour and taste is just extreme , don't feed cabbage because although not toxic Cabbage contains goitrogens that interfere with thyroid activity and could damage the liver and kidneys( source: http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plants_19.asp?st=true&mode=main&catID=621)
don't feed Bhindi (ladies' finger) as they are very sticky and gooey... can mess up with the gut of your stars as they are very small....

• And i Am INDEED SHOCKED on hearing about feeding CHAPATI..... your help/informant is clearly misinformed or not informed at all...
please don't feed chapati.... it contains gluten which tortoise's gut(alimentary canal) cannot digest.... it will cause constipation and blockage in small torts like yours.. don't take any risks...
tortoises especially Indian Stars are the Grazing critters/animals.... their diet comprises mostly of fibre and less protein.... so feed the greens i mentioned above as they are high in fibre....

•regarding the staple food : i feed hibiscus leaves and flowers + Jasmine(mogra) leaves + kheera/kakdi
you can also buy a grape plant from nursery and keep it in balcony and feed those leaves.....
and yes methi patta will do.....

i see that your stars are very small.... 2-3 months old.... so that size of tub will do for 3-4 months at max.. then you'll need to change......
and newspaper is not good as bedding.... so as soon as possible do get the garden soil( not treated with any chemical) in the meantime you can use moist/slightly moist tissue paper.... also provide dry area where the tissue paper is dry....

• the hide you made with ceramic bowl is too dangerous... it can fall over Humpty and Dumpty or it can trap them inside if it falls off those marbles.... use something else... you can use shoe box, cutting a hole for entry. but the garden pot cut in half is ideal....

here's my Star's Enclosure/home :
• top view

and here's Star :

unicorn · Jul 15, 2014

Thanks for enlightening, Shanu. By the way, Your Star is indeed a star with lovely expressive eyes!

I'll incorporate all that you have advised and revert. However, my only worry is with the 'garden soil' part, 'cos-
firstly, i'm not sure of the soil. I mean should it be dry, coarse and sandy or wet, slightly damp & muddy? how can we be sure that it is free from pesticides, would purchasing such soil from a nursery help?
secondly, how do we have to clean this soil each time the little ones poop? do we have to do spot cleaning or change the entire soil?
third and most importantly, i'm afraid of any accidental ingestion of it by the star babies (for i've read that it could be fatal), are my fears unfounded?

Too many questions, i know. But my first time at tortoise keeping, hope you understand!

unicorn · Jul 16, 2014

Hi Shanu,

Here's a new home i made for my baby stars, based on your inputs. I made a shelter for them from a cardboard box, and used the roof of an old cage to predator-proof my tortoise home. Lastly, i've used pebbles as a substrate (the only change, 'cos i'm very wary to use soil, for the fear my stars might accidentally eat them). I've laid the pebbles on a newspaper, so that on hot days when i sprinkle some water over the pebbles, the newspaper below would aid moisture retention to some extent.

Take a look at the pics and let me know what you think-
you can see the two babies sitting cozily inside the box

shanu303 · Jul 20, 2014

@unicorn sorry for the late reply.... was busy...
regarding the soil.... it should be normal garden soil... not coarse and not too fine..... it should be slightly damp in the enclosure.
you need to ask the person in charge in the nursery regarding pesticides free soil.... and you have to spot clean the soil.

and the enclosure looks pretty good except for the pebbles and the water dish..... the pebbles are not appropriate in the entire enclosure, maybe just a part... and the pebbles should be small, not that big as humpty and dumpty will find it very hard to move around... as they're very small....
the problem with the water dish is that it is too high for them to easily get in and out.... this problem is arising because there isn't 3-4 inches of substrate.... if it were there it could easily be dug and the water dish would have been with its rims in level with the substrate... try searching different places... I'm sure you'll find pesticide free soil...

and great use of the old cage... just cover the open sides and you're all good

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