What kind of flower/ diet do you put your western hermanns tortoise on?After doing a ton of research on the species of tortoise that would be the best fit for our family, there was only one clear choice where I would go to purchase our Western Hermann's tortoises: Chris Leone at Garden State Tortoise & Hermanni Haven. The amount of information he has published on the web through his website and videos on youtube has been invaluable to us as new tortoise keepers. After reviewing all the available information, I feel well informed and prepared to take the very best care of these two little hatchling tortoises. We ended up making an entire outdoor enclosure and garden for them, full of edibles and hideouts and a cold box just like the ones Chris has at Garden State Tortoise. By the time the hatchlings are ready to use it, it should be green and lush and a perfect outdoor habitat for them. Barnaby and Portillo arrived right on time, beautifully packaged, alert and healthy and took to exploring their new indoor enclosure right away. Within just a couple hours, I spotted one of them in the food dish munching on the chopped mulberry, hibiscus, rose, and moistened Mazuri salad we made for them. I can not thank Chris enough for helping to bring so much joy and love to our household. Without a doubt, the best possible experience from start to finish and we love our new babies so much! Thank you, Chris!!
I see breeder fault. He told the person two tortoises of any sex combo can be housed together.This really sounds like an "I housed two tortoises together" problem, not anything to do with the breeder.
You wrote: >> I felt that I was doing the best thing by purchasing two tortoises so they could have a companion but my Dalmatian seems much happier with being constant harassed. << but that is really the problem. You "felt" that was the best case but it wasn't. If you read the care sheets here you will see tortoises should NEVER be keep in pairs. End of story.
Also, not trying to defend Chris specifically here, I am not a fan of getting from breeders (vs rescue, but understand my choice isn't everyone's), but this doesn't sound like anything to do with the breeder one way or another.
Ok I missed thatI see breeder fault. He told the person two tortoises of any sex combo can be housed together.
I am not trying to cause any issues; I am just sharing my experience. Chris showed a significant lack of communication after I purchased the tortoises. I was skeptical of co-housing because I had read that tortoises should be kept individually. I sent a personal email to Chris before ordering, expressing my concerns, and the responses I received included, "I always opt for co-housing. It’s for more natural than most people in the hobby care to realize. In over 30 years I’ve had the most success doing it this way." and "Yes, you can keep two together regardless of sex." I trusted the breeder even AFTER I had already done hours of research on Hermann tortoises. I'll admit it was a mistake on my part, and I was too trustworthy.This really sounds like an "I housed two tortoises together" problem, not anything to do with the breeder.
You wrote: >> I felt that I was doing the best thing by purchasing two tortoises so they could have a companion but my Dalmatian seems much happier with being constant harassed. << but that is really the problem. You "felt" that was the best case but it wasn't. If you read the care sheets here you will see tortoises should NEVER be keep in pairs. End of story.
Also, not trying to defend Chris specifically here, I am not a fan of getting from breeders (vs rescue, but understand my choice isn't everyone's), but this doesn't sound like anything to do with the breeder one way or another.
The way I read it Chris told them it would be fine to.house them together.This really sounds like an "I housed two tortoises together" problem, not anything to do with the breeder.
You wrote: >> I felt that I was doing the best thing by purchasing two tortoises so they could have a companion but my Dalmatian seems much happier with being constant harassed. << but that is really the problem. You "felt" that was the best case but it wasn't. If you read the care sheets here you will see tortoises should NEVER be keep in pairs. End of story.
Also, not trying to defend Chris specifically here, I am not a fan of getting from breeders (vs rescue, but understand my choice isn't everyone's), but this doesn't sound like anything to do with the breeder one way or another.
Yes, that was my interpretation of the post as well.The way I read it Chris told them it would be fine to.house them together.
I agree with you that that is on him. "Co-housing", which to me means housing them in groups, is a good way to go, but never pairs, and never different species or subspecies. Groups of juveniles of the same species and size, will usually get along just fine. Never pairs, never different species or subspecies, and at least with the Testudo genus, never different sizes. For the last two decades, I have only ever housed tortoises in groups, except in the rare case that an overly aggressive maturing male needed himself some solitary confinement. If Chris really said what you quoted above, that is a mistake he made, and you've seen first hand that the info he gave you is not correct. I can understand why you would believe him, even though you read otherwise elsewhere.I am not trying to cause any issues; I am just sharing my experience. Chris showed a significant lack of communication after I purchased the tortoises. I was skeptical of co-housing because I had read that tortoises should be kept individually. I sent a personal email to Chris before ordering, expressing my concerns, and the responses I received included, "I always opt for co-housing. It’s for more natural than most people in the hobby care to realize. In over 30 years I’ve had the most success doing it this way." and "Yes, you can keep two together regardless of sex." I trusted the breeder even AFTER I had already done hours of research on Hermann tortoises. I'll admit it was a mistake on my part, and I was too trustworthy.
Unfortunately, I have the emails as proof. But it is definitely a lesson learned. Hopefully, others can find this information as useful as I did. I also found the information about temperature sexing beneficial. I didn't know that it had only been done in a lab. I hope more people can see this post before they purchase a tortoise. Thank you for taking the time to explain everything.I agree with you that that is on him. "Co-housing", which to me means housing them in groups, is a good way to go, but never pairs, and never different species or subspecies. Groups of juveniles of the same species and size, will usually get along just fine. Never pairs, never different species or subspecies, and at least with the Testudo genus, never different sizes. For the last two decades, I have only ever housed tortoises in groups, except in the rare case that an overly aggressive maturing male needed himself some solitary confinement. If Chris really said what you quoted above, that is a mistake he made, and you've seen first hand that the info he gave you is not correct. I can understand why you would believe him, even though you read otherwise elsewhere.
Lesson leanred. Tell other people so that more tortoises don't have to go through what yours went through. Your remaining tortoise will be perfectly happy all alone.
On the subject of temp sexing: Only sulcatas have been tested in a lab setting. And the temps that have been learned and verified for sulcatas only work if a person is using lab grade accurate equipment for incubation and temperature regulation. No other species has been studied in a lab, so the temps for 100% females or 100% males are not known. As a general rule, temps on the warmer end of the range for a given species should be producing more females, but as you have now learned first hand, that is not a guarantee. We see this frequently with Burmese star tortoises. Everyone is "incubating for female", and almost all of the babies produced are male. I bought 14 "incubated for female" platynota babies in 2013 and ended up with 8 males. I was lucky. Another forum member here bought 15 and got 100% males. It took two years of his time to grow them large enough to sex them all.