Diet is huge...just as important as proper environment...
Huge in what regard? Overall health, or pyramiding?
Diet is huge...just as important as proper environment...
Don't know the answer about genetics, but my guess is yes because I think homeana's keratin grows different to the redfooted species. I'm not seeing prominent growth rings with my homeana that we see with redfoot tortoises, not at 9 months old anyway.The diet and habitat is very similar to homeana. What I find perplexing is how some of the other species like sulcatas and leopards are raised under very precise and humid conditions, yet still have some degree of pyramiding. I raise my forstenii with somewhat dry substrate yet with high air humidity, due to the fact that they are prone to shell rot as hatchlings. I have never seen a pyramided forstenii. Mine grow extremely fast but perfectly smooth. Could this lend evidence to the genetic factor?
This is a good point. I've seen many outdoor enclosures posted on the forum that look barren. Charlie has access to our entire yard which is kept watered. There are plenty of bushes to hide under with soil that never dries out. There is one that Charlie spends a lot of time under in the summer.I actually have had the experience opposite to @Tom when moving mine outside. I believe both Tom and I move them outside about the same size with more extended outside time starting at 4-6" and full time 8-10". My experience was always using closed chambers indoors, but no humidity. The first decade with sulcatas was in the Pleasanton area of California with a lot of marine influence and always evening humidity. I also always have had extremely well planted and well watered enclosures. Others seem to have problems with their enclosure looking more barren from overgrazing by the sulcatas. Mine did not do that. I did notice that once outside, they always loved to spend lots of time pushed under bushes and wet clumps of grass. I believe that is what allowed mine to find their own humidity, despite my own humidity ignorance back then.
So I think the nighttime humidity of a well planted enclosure always benefited mine. Evening and overnight dew is greatly enhanced by plant growth.View attachment 204343 Here is a picture of my tortoise enclosure mid summer that I had for 17 years prior to my last move 3 years ago.
Yes cross over like a brick wall makes for a stronger structure.Yes, those hexagons are the individual bone plates - the vertebrals. The vertebral SCUTES will cover about 3 vertebral BONES as the bones are much smaller plates than the scutes. I also think that is why the vertebrals are much more resistant to smoothing out in a previously pyramiding tortoise, as the vertebral bones are smaller and the scute seam can tip an entire bone plate almost folding it as the scutes seam will normally coincide with the middle of a vertebral bone plate. That is also what makes a tortoise shell much stronger - the seams of scutes vs bone do not line up.
Yes cross over like a brick wall makes for a stronger structure.Yes, those hexagons are the individual bone plates - the vertebrals. The vertebral SCUTES will cover about 3 vertebral BONES as the bones are much smaller plates than the scutes. I also think that is why the vertebrals are much more resistant to smoothing out in a previously pyramiding tortoise, as the vertebral bones are smaller and the scute seam can tip an entire bone plate almost folding it as the scutes seam will normally coincide with the middle of a vertebral bone plate. That is also what makes a tortoise shell much stronger - the seams of scutes vs bone do not line up.
Its next on my agenda. I'm almost certain my last clutch of 9 are fertile and ready soon, was thinking 3 with oil, 3 with mud and 3 with nothing on carapace.Yes.
I think there may well be something to that. My sulcatas and stars are always throwing mud on themselves especially lately with the extreme heat we are having this year. It would make sense to me that anything that can help keep the new keratin hydrated would help reduce pyramiding. I have been doing some coconut oil experiments myself currently.
Its next on my agenda. I'm almost certain my last clutch of 9 are fertile and ready soon, was thinking 3 with oil, 3 with mud and 3 with nothing on carapace.
Just a couple questionable thoughts please. Did not see anything about metabolic bone disease here or I missed it. Isn't that what causes pyramiding and not keratin growth. The keratin only covers the bone under it after all. Vitamin D, proper calcium metabolism and proper lighting all are very important parts and food DOES supply at least some of this. Much persuasion causes me to begin seeing value in more external H2O than I would have given credence not long ago. Tortoises living in very poor food spots can still grow very slowly, get all the sun, some rain and grow smooth shells over a longer period can't they?
If MDB can be prevented shouldn't most normally kept tortoises grow smooth shells even if growing fairly rapidly? Perhaps there is an optimum(limited?)growth rate beyond which pyramiding will happen regardless of the best food/habitat conditions? And that brings us back to food or perhaps too much of it being a possible problem.
I fully agree here with Tom. Also I'd like to add that as the mud dries, it will take with it some of the moisture that was intended to be introduced into the keratin. As an example of this, when stung by a wasp, hornet or honey bee, if you apply a layer of mud to said location, as the mud dries to dirt it also "sucks" the venom out of the sting location. Trust me with this or try yourself, when I was 8-9 years old I spent lots of time catching honey bees by their wings, (this impressed the girls) I was stung regularly but I'd just put mud on it to reduce the pain. I was stung enough that now I'm highly allergic to honey bee stings but I still like the ladies.Mud only works if it stays mud, in my experience. Once the mud dries, I don't see it making any difference.