Don't forget to check the incubator!

[ben awes]

Another reminder to check the incubator everyday! First hatch of Aphrodite's 4th season found yesterday morning!

 

[Zamric]

Very Nice!

 

[Yvonne G]

Besides checking for new hatches, you need to also check your temperatures frequently. I looked at my incubator yesterday and the temp was 95F degrees!!! I've probably cooked my leopard and YF eggs that were in there. Don't know why it spiked...some sort of malfunction, I guess.

 

[Tom]

Nice baby. Have we seen the adults? Can you share your incubation "recipe"? You know, diapause, etc...

 

[DevilsLettuce]

Nice baby there Ben, looking forward to seeing the rest of them.

 

[diamondbp]

Just gorgeous Ben. I can't wait to see the rest of them. I wish I had the cash right now to get one

 

[ben awes]

Besides checking for new hatches, you need to also check your temperatures frequently. I looked at my incubator yesterday and the temp was 95F degrees!!! I've probably cooked my leopard and YF eggs that were in there. Don't know why it spiked...some sort of malfunction, I guess.

I do try to check temps - but it is hard to do everyday! Once my power did go out - not so much trouble for the incubator because the thermostat on those chicken incubators is a manual dial - not digital. When the power comes back on it goes back to temp. My wine cooler is another story. When the power goes out with that it resets to the lowest temp! This happened once when cooling eggs at 60 degrees. It reset to 45 and I did not check and it was at that temp for several days. For sure killed 12 eggs!

I do check that every day now.

---

Nice baby. Have we seen the adults? Can you share your incubation "recipe"? You know, diapause, etc...

I think you have seen the adults.....? If not the easiest way is through my Chubs Leopards Facebook page - I've got photos and some short video clips. I can post photos directly sometime as well.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chubs-Leopards/206914369352239

Regarding my recipe - well, I consider myself FAR from an expert and i think there are ways to improve what I am doing - but, I chill the eggs @ 60 degrees for 30 days in a wine cooler. I place the eggs about 1/2 to 2/3rds buried in damp vermiculite in covered, but not sealed, plastic dishes (to keep humidity in). After 30 days i place in the incubator @ 85 degrees and wait!

Keeping the humidity right is nearly impossible with the vermiculite. when you add water to it the humidity soars, and then it dries out fairly quickly. I wonder if just keeping dishes of water in the incubator would be enough. I notice that Aldabraman does not bury his eggs - lets them sit on top. Seems they would dry out pretty quickly? I don't know what to do about that.

I have not varied this routine too much because I have had some success, but am open to suggestions!

My female lays every 30 days for 4 or 5 clutches per year (last year I might have had 6 clutches).

Ben

 

[jeffbens0n]

Ben, I've had the same issue with vermiculite(with Russian eggs) and have been looking into hatchrite, perlite, and super hatch. I'd like to try something different for the next clutch.

 

[Tom]

Thanks for the info Ben.

Do you go straight from the wine cooler to the incubator, or is there a transitional phase?

Have you ever tried leaving the eggs in the ground, either temporarily, or full term?

Have you been able to keep track of any hatchlings for a few years and see what sexes you are getting at 85 degrees?

I use shoe boxes for my leopard and sulcata eggs. I drill 4 quarter inch holes around the top of the tub and I keep the lid on the whole time. In a still air incubator I might drip a little water into the vermiculite once or twice during the 90-100 days, and then I add quite a bit of water at the first pip to facilitate hatching and simulate a rain storm. In a moving air incubator, I close all the holes on the shoe box (or just use a new shoebox with no holes) and add a little water around the edges of each box as needed. Usually once a week, but very small amounts. I also run an open tub of water inside the incubator.

How many eggs do you typically get in a clutch and what is your hatch rate?

Sorry for all the questions. My males are ready to go now and my females should be ready in another 2 or 3 years. Just trying to learn all I can.

 

[ben awes]

Thanks for the info Ben.

Do you go straight from the wine cooler to the incubator, or is there a transitional phase?

Have you ever tried leaving the eggs in the ground, either temporarily, or full term?

Have you been able to keep track of any hatchlings for a few years and see what sexes you are getting at 85 degrees?

I use shoe boxes for my leopard and sulcata eggs. I drill 4 quarter inch holes around the top of the tub and I keep the lid on the whole time. In a still air incubator I might drip a little water into the vermiculite once or twice during the 90-100 days, and then I add quite a bit of water at the first pip to facilitate hatching and simulate a rain storm. In a moving air incubator, I close all the holes on the shoe box (or just use a new shoebox with no holes) and add a little water around the edges of each box as needed. Usually once a week, but very small amounts. I also run an open tub of water inside the incubator.

How many eggs do you typically get in a clutch and what is your hatch rate?

Sorry for all the questions. My males are ready to go now and my females should be ready in another 2 or 3 years. Just trying to learn all I can.

Hi Tom,

I don't mind the questions at all. I go straight to the incubator - I thought the sudden shift in temp was important? My hatch rates vary quite a bit. Seasonally I see 25% to 30%, but it varies greatly from clutch to clutch. Usually one or two clutches are 50%-70% and others are 0%-20%. Right now I have 20 eggs that are coming due and from candeling them it looks like I might get 2 hatches!

Her clutches range from 7 to 13 eggs.

I do not leave them in the ground because she lays indoors and so the dirt she lays in does not see rain, sun, etc. Can't imagine that this would be good for the eggs - but maybe I'm wrong? Also, I don't have room to leave them in the ground because she digs her nest in the same spot each time and so she would dig up the previous nests.

One thing that I have observed is that each year (she might lay one more time this year - her fourth year) she has laid her first clutch of the year later each year. The first year her first clutch was june, the second, july, then early august and this year her first clutch was late august. The trouble I see with this is that the male is much more active mating her when I can have them outside in the summer. Clearly her later clutches this year either won't be fertile or much less chance because he is not mating with at all or as often that I can see. Not sure what I can do about that.

I don't have the room to separate them for half the year and then bring them together. Hmmmm.....

My female laid when she was 7 years old - so be ready! I was told she was too young.

My hatchlings would only be 3 - 3 1/2 years old at this point so not sure that anyone could tell if they are male of female - maybe. I should check with those folks and see.

I am just don't like trying to keep the vermiculite the correct dampness. I will if i have to but if keeping water in the incubator in dishes keeps the humidity high enough, that would be much preferable.

Ben

 

[wellington]

Can anyone of you explain the purpose of the diapause please. I have read that a few times on here. What does this do. Is it always done in the beginning, right after the eggs are laid or do other species need it during the higher heat incubation time? I thought I read that the stars or rads breeders do it during the incubation time. Thanks, just curious to know.

 

[Tom]

I have a few observations, just anecdotal, that might give you some insight:

Our friend Neal here on the forum had hatch rate woes similar to yours. One year he left all his leopard eggs in the ground until June, then dug them up and put the, into the incubator. He had near 100% hatch rates that year. I did the same thing this last year with my sulcata eggs and had the same result. Best hatch rates I ever had. Only 4 eggs out of 200+ didn't hatch, and this includes about a dozen dimpled and cracked eggs.

There have been several verifiable cases of leopards laying fertile eggs after a full five years with no contact with any males. It seems unlikely that your female isn't carrying the necessary "materials" to make fertile eggs.

I've had several conversations with people who live in hot desert climates, here in the SoCal High desert, Vegas, Phoenix, etc., and it seems to all of us that clutches conceived and or laid in hot weather have much lower fertility. My best fertility comes from eggs that are laid in January through April. My lowest fertility comes from clutches laid in July through September.

I was able to tell the sex of all my SA leopards at about 2.5 years. By 3 I knew for sure on all of them.

Thanks again for sharing all your observations. This has been very enjoyable and educational for me. I'm sure I will have more questions for you in the future.

 

[ben awes]

I have a few observations, just anecdotal, that might give you some insight:

Our friend Neal here on the forum had hatch rate woes similar to yours. One year he left all his leopard eggs in the ground until June, then dug them up and put the, into the incubator. He had near 100% hatch rates that year. I did the same thing this last year with my sulcata eggs and had the same result. Best hatch rates I ever had. Only 4 eggs out of 200+ didn't hatch, and this includes about a dozen dimpled and cracked eggs.

There have been several verifiable cases of leopards laying fertile eggs after a full five years with no contact with any males. It seems unlikely that your female isn't carrying the necessary "materials" to make fertile eggs.

I've had several conversations with people who live in hot desert climates, here in the SoCal High desert, Vegas, Phoenix, etc., and it seems to all of us that clutches conceived and or laid in hot weather have much lower fertility. My best fertility comes from eggs that are laid in January through April. My lowest fertility comes from clutches laid in July through September.

I was able to tell the sex of all my SA leopards at about 2.5 years. By 3 I knew for sure on all of them.

Thanks again for sharing all your observations. This has been very enjoyable and educational for me. I'm sure I will have more questions for you in the future.

Are you suggesting that i leave the eggs in the dirt INDOORS? She will likely have one more clutch this year so I could leave them in the ground (dirt filled tub actually). But it will get no water, no light, no natural stuff like worm, bugs, etc. that are all part of being in the ground outside.

Also - you left out a critical part of the story - he left them in the ground "until June" but when did they get put in the ground? Also, what kind of leopards does Neal raise?

Thanks Mike, this is very helpful to me.

Ben

 

[AnnV]

So does anyony know what the natural hatch rate is?

 

[Tom]

Not making any suggestions. Just sharing some stuff that I've seen and heard. I have no idea if you'd get the same effect from leaving the eggs in the "ground" indoors.

Neal will have to tell you when his eggs were laid, but If I recall, it was all through the first part of the year. In my case my sulcatas started laying in late December and January, and then periodically about every 6 weeks per female up until it got consistently hot here in June. I dug up all my eggs in late June, with Cory's help, and put them straight into the incubator at 89.3 degrees. Some had been in the cold ground since December and some had only been in a few weeks. ALL of them hatched well.

Neal has "regular" leopards that are the ones we are discussing here. He also has juvenile SA leopards. I am going to PM him and ask him to join in here, as I don't want to get any of his info wrong.

 

[ben awes]

Not making any suggestions. Just sharing some stuff that I've seen and heard. I have no idea if you'd get the same effect from leaving the eggs in the "ground" indoors.

Neal will have to tell you when his eggs were laid, but If I recall, it was all through the first part of the year. In my case my sulcatas started laying in late December and January, and then periodically about every 6 weeks per female up until it got consistently hot here in June. I dug up all my eggs in late June, with Cory's help, and put them straight into the incubator at 89.3 degrees. Some had been in the cold ground since December and some had only been in a few weeks. ALL of them hatched well.

Neal has "regular" leopards that are the ones we are discussing here. He also has juvenile SA leopards. I am going to PM him and ask him to join in here, as I don't want to get any of his info wrong.

Fascinating! I might have to give it a go in the ground, indoors, just to see what happens!

Ben

---

So does anyony know what the natural hatch rate is?

I do not know as I have only bred, laid, chilled, incubated, and hatched indoors! I would love to hear. I would imagine though that natural hatch rates are pretty high - like only a defect or crack or something abnormal would be a cause for not hatching?

 

[N2TORTS]

Very Nice ...........

Beautiful specimen .............

 

[Neal]

Tom explained my experiences pretty well. For the most part, the egg laying cycle of my leopard tortoises is in sync with the monsoon. They will usually begin to lay in late June. One of my females will stop laying right at the end of the monsoon in September, while the other one will lay clutches all the way into January. I've never paid attention to whether or not the clutches laid during the cooler part of the year end up with better hatch rates. That's an interesting theory though, I'll keep that in mind this next season and try to remember to keep some records. I'll leave all the clutches in the ground until spring time when I'll dig them up and finish out things in the incubator. This has always worked out better for me in terms of higher hatch rates than the clutches I dig immediately after being laid and are completely artificially incubated.

I have a theory that I've never really tested further than just anecdotal observation that hatchlings left in the ground to incubate "naturally" are more hardy than those artificially incubated. This theory comes from my first season of hatching leopard eggs. I had quite a few hatch out, but the majority of them died 2 - 3 months later and were never as active as I was used to seeing in leopards. The hatchlings I have observed from "naturally incubating" have always appeared to be more robust and active. I have one clutch of six eggs from this season that I dug up immediately. I'd like to compare these hatchlings (if I get any) with the ones that I have left in the ground to see if there is anything noteworthy as far as hatch rates, activity level, feeding activity, etc...

 

[Zamric]

I have a theory that I've never really tested further than just anecdotal observation that hatchlings left in the ground to incubate "naturally" are more hardy than those artificially incubated. This theory comes from my first season of hatching leopard eggs. I had quite a few hatch out, but the majority of them died 2 - 3 months later and were never as active as I was used to seeing in leopards. The hatchlings I have observed from "naturally incubating" have always appeared to be more robust and active. I have one clutch of six eggs from this season that I dug up immediately. I'd like to compare these hatchlings (if I get any) with the ones that I have left in the ground to see if there is anything noteworthy as far as hatch rates, activity level, feeding activity, etc...

Very interesting! I would like to know how this turns out!

 

[Tom]

I have a theory that I've never really tested further than just anecdotal observation that hatchlings left in the ground to incubate "naturally" are more hardy than those artificially incubated.

This is interesting. I have found the opposite to be true with my sulcatas. It MIGHT be due to the areas where these tortoises come from. Its pretty hot and stable across sulcata territory, so it would make sense that incubation temps would be more stable in an underground sulcata nest, in comparison to a leopard nest which would tend to come from areas with much more variable weather.

In Tomas' new sulcata book, he is supposed to have wild nest temps listed in there. Once we get that, all we will need is to chart some wild leopard nest temps and compare. Anyone wanna volunteer to get get some wild nest temps?