Eastern or western hermann's?

okkarence

New Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
21
Location (City and/or State)
Tallaght
I'm wondering if anyone here could help me figure out if my juvenile Dash is an eastern or western hermann's tortoise? The place I purchased from didn't give any information about it. Also I'm very aware of his slight pyramiding, he already had it when I got him and I'm trying my best to fix his new growth!
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20211229-180101_Video Player.jpg
    Screenshot_20211229-180101_Video Player.jpg
    361.5 KB · Views: 38
  • Screenshot_20211229-180049_Video Player.jpg
    Screenshot_20211229-180049_Video Player.jpg
    286.1 KB · Views: 35
  • Screenshot_20211229-175706_Gallery.jpg
    Screenshot_20211229-175706_Gallery.jpg
    369.5 KB · Views: 35
  • 20211229_153112.jpg
    20211229_153112.jpg
    1.5 MB · Views: 36
  • 20211215_131901.jpg
    20211215_131901.jpg
    1.3 MB · Views: 38

TeamZissou

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
1,048
Location (City and/or State)
Albuquerque, NM
I think the answer is C. None of the above!

This appears to be a Dalmatian Hermanns tortoise, Testudo hermanni hercegovinensis. I suppose technically it's an Eastern Hermann's since Dalmatian is no longer considered its own subspecies. Most tortoise people still consider it a separate subspecies because it has many features that distinguish it from a true Eastern.

Here's what I see on your tort that makes me think so:

Overall shape of head and eyes look like Hermanni Chris' photo (using this photo of your tort)
Heart shaped green mark on top of head
Missing inguinal scute (though it's tough to tell from current pic since it is far away).
Shape of black spot on first vertebral scute

Looks good!

 

okkarence

New Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
21
Location (City and/or State)
Tallaght
I think the answer is C. None of the above!

This appears to be a Dalmatian Hermanns tortoise, Testudo hermanni hercegovinensis. I suppose technically it's an Eastern Hermann's since Dalmatian is no longer considered its own subspecies. Most tortoise people still consider it a separate subspecies because it has many features that distinguish it from a true Eastern.

Here's what I see on your tort that makes me think so:

Overall shape of head and eyes look like Hermanni Chris' photo (using this photo of your tort)
Heart shaped green mark on top of head
Missing inguinal scute (though it's tough to tell from current pic since it is far away).
Shape of black spot on first vertebral scute

Looks good!

Very very interesting, thank you :) i will read up on it now!
 

okkarence

New Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
21
Location (City and/or State)
Tallaght
I think the answer is C. None of the above!

This appears to be a Dalmatian Hermanns tortoise, Testudo hermanni hercegovinensis. I suppose technically it's an Eastern Hermann's since Dalmatian is no longer considered its own subspecies. Most tortoise people still consider it a separate subspecies because it has many features that distinguish it from a true Eastern.

Here's what I see on your tort that makes me think so:

Overall shape of head and eyes look like Hermanni Chris' photo (using this photo of your tort)
Heart shaped green mark on top of head
Missing inguinal scute (though it's tough to tell from current pic since it is far away).
Shape of black spot on first vertebral scute

Looks good!

I managed to take a better picture of Dash's underside today and i honestly can't tell if he's got the inguinal scutes or not?
 

Attachments

  • 20211230_170607.jpg
    20211230_170607.jpg
    1.9 MB · Views: 13

TeamZissou

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
1,048
Location (City and/or State)
Albuquerque, NM
I managed to take a better picture of Dash's underside today and i honestly can't tell if he's got the inguinal scutes or not?

Where you want to look is near the front of the leg.

Here are two of HermanniChris' photos showing no inguinal scute on a Dalmatian (green arrows):

inguinal.jpg
inguinal 2.jpg

Compare this to a photo of a Greek tortoise (T.g. terrestris) that has a scute at this location:

IMG_2742.JPG

The lack of inguinal scute is often cited as being a giveaway for identifying Dalmatians. However, according to HermanniChris, the scute is missing about 60% of the time, so it's still possible to have a Dalmatian with an inguinal scute. That said, I think the other features of your tortoise--especially the head and eyes--show that it's a Dalmatian.
 

New Posts

Top