Food question

[Franklinmom]

I own a salcata tortoise and I was wondering if I can feed her grapes??

 

[longevity]

No! Sulcatas should primarily eat high-fiber grasses, weeds, and a few safe vegetables suitable for them. Avoid Fruits. Their digestive system relies on specific gut bacteria that thrive on this type of diet. Fruits contain too much sugar and can disrupt the gut’s pH balance, potentially harming or killing the beneficial bacteria they depend on. As a result, feeding fruit can make your baby sulcata sick.

 

[Franklinmom]

No! Sulcatas should primarily eat high-fiber grasses, weeds, and a few safe vegetables suitable for them. Avoid Fruits. Their digestive system relies on specific gut bacteria that thrive on this type of diet. Fruits contain too much sugar and can disrupt the gut’s pH balance, potentially harming or killing the beneficial bacteria they depend on. As a result, feeding fruit can make your baby sulcata sick.

Omg!!! Will u please let me know what vegetables r safe for her to eat

 

[longevity]

Based on this thread, good vegetables or weeds should have a high Ca : P ratio. Each region has different plants available, so you can check the nutritional list here to decide which ones to give:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/w...-published-nutrient-list.161833/#post-1549967

Btw, try not to make green vegetables the main staple. For babies, it’s better to give a mix of vegetables, flowers, and weeds. Personally, I also added a bit of very thin slices of fresh grass since my baby was around 5 cm, just so he could get used to the smell and texture early. But some people have different opinions, since grass can be harder to digest for very young torts. How old id your baby?

For my baby, the main combination is:
• Green vegetables (Pok Choy(high calcium) + Romaine or Green Lettuce for hydration)
• Leaves from cucumber/chayote/katuk/moringa/hibiscus
• A bit of thinly sliced fresh grass (only when he was still kept indoors)
Twice a week, I also give him a bit of opuntia

These days, in the morning and again in the afternoon before bedtime, I just give him the green vegetables and leaves. Later in the day, he munches on grass or weeds by himself.

And if you haven’t read it yet, this is one of the best guides for raising young sulcatas:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

What to avoid: any kind of Spinach

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

How old is your tortoise?

 

[wellington]

You can feed grape leaves if you are growing the grapes.

 

[zovick]

Based on this thread, good vegetables or weeds should have a high Ca : P ratio. Each region has different plants available, so you can check the nutritional list here to decide which ones to give:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/w...-published-nutrient-list.161833/#post-1549967

Btw, try not to make green vegetables the main staple. For babies, it’s better to give a mix of vegetables, flowers, and weeds. Personally, I also added a bit of very thin slices of fresh grass since my baby was around 5 cm, just so he could get used to the smell and texture early. But some people have different opinions, since grass can be harder to digest for very young torts. How old id your baby?

For my baby, the main combination is:
• Green vegetables (Pok Choy(high calcium) + Romaine or Green Lettuce for hydration)
• Leaves from cucumber/chayote/katuk/moringa/hibiscus
• A bit of thinly sliced fresh grass (only when he was still kept indoors)
Twice a week, I also give him a bit of opuntia

These days, in the morning and again in the afternoon before bedtime, I just give him the green vegetables and leaves. Later in the day, he munches on grass or weeds by himself.

And if you haven’t read it yet, this is one of the best guides for raising young sulcatas:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

What to avoid: any kind of Spinach

Are you aware that Pak Choy is a Brassica family vegetable? It seems strange that you recommend avoiding spinach yet feed a vegetable from a family which also has a negative reputation (Brassica family vegetables are said to be goitrogens).

Personally, I always fed my tortoises both of them and had no ill effects. Just wondered if you were aware of the supposed problems with the Pak Choy.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Spinach is totally fine in moderation (not a staple green) - it contains oxalates that interfere with calcium uptake but has a lot of other nutrients instead (e.g. significant amount of beta-carotene, a precursor to vitamin A).

Some brassicas (e.g. kale) have decent amount of iodine that counter-acts effects of goiterogens they contain.

Potential harm from both oxalates and goiterogens seems to be exaggerated, too.

Yet, once again, variety is the key. Bill's (zovick) experience is a good proof to that.

 

[longevity]

Are you aware that Pak Choy is a Brassica family vegetable? It seems strange that you recommend avoiding spinach yet feed a vegetable from a family which also has a negative reputation (Brassica family vegetables are said to be goitrogens).

Yes, I know pok choy is a Brassicaceae vegetable and contains goitrogens like spinach, kale, and other brassicas. But in most of region, the green vegetables available daily are mainly from the Brassica family and the Lettuce family.

Among the brassicas, I look for options with a high Ca : P ratio that are easy to find. This leaves me with pok choy and kale. Because kale is often heavily sprayed with pesticides, I mainly use pok choy. Nevertheless, I still occasionally add kale, mustard greens, siomak, or fumak to provide more variety.

as @Alex and the Redfoot mentioned, I avoid spinach because of its very high oxalate content. One cup of pok choy has about 1 mg of oxalates, while one cup of spinach has about 656 mg*. Even though spinach has a similar Ca : P ratio, its oxalates bind to minerals, especially calcium, that making them harder to absorb. From what I’ve read, about 50% of the calcium in pok choy is absorbable, compared to only about 5% in spinach, due to this oxalate difference.

Source:
* https://www.google.com/search?q=oxa...E3MzAyajBqMagCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Yes, I know pok choy is a Brassicaceae vegetable and contains goitrogens like spinach, kale, and other brassicas. But in most of region, the green vegetables available daily are mainly from the Brassica family and the Lettuce family.

Among the brassicas, I look for options with a high Ca : P ratio that are easy to find. This leaves me with pok choy and kale. Because kale is often heavily sprayed with pesticides, I mainly use pok choy. Nevertheless, I still occasionally add kale, mustard greens, siomak, or fumak to provide more variety.

as @Alex and the Redfoot mentioned, I avoid spinach because of its very high oxalate content. One cup of pok choy has about 1 mg of oxalates, while one cup of spinach has about 656 mg*. Even though spinach has a similar Ca : P ratio, its oxalates bind to minerals, especially calcium, that making them harder to absorb. From what I’ve read, about 50% of the calcium in pok choy is absorbable, compared to only about 5% in spinach, due to this oxalate difference.

Source:
* https://www.google.com/search?q=oxa...E3MzAyajBqMagCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

A small remark, to avoid further confusion: spinach is not in Brassicas family, it's Amaranthaceae (like beetroot).

I'm not sure if this data can be 100% trusted, but still an interesting comparison:

Nutrition Comparison of Raw Spinach vs Raw Bok Choy (Pak-Choi)

Nutrition Comparison of Raw Spinach vs Raw Bok Choy (Pak-Choi). Compare carbs, fat, protein, vitamins, minerals, and more between different foods or serving sizes. Search the database of over 200,000 foods.

tools.myfooddata.com

 

[zovick]

A small remark, to avoid further confusion: spinach is not in Brassicas family, it's Amaranthaceae (like beetroot).

I'm not sure if this data can be 100% trusted, but still an interesting comparison:

Nutrition Comparison of Raw Spinach vs Raw Bok Choy (Pak-Choi)

Nutrition Comparison of Raw Spinach vs Raw Bok Choy (Pak-Choi). Compare carbs, fat, protein, vitamins, minerals, and more between different foods or serving sizes. Search the database of over 200,000 foods.

tools.myfooddata.com

You beat me to it! I was going to post that spinach is NOT a Brassica family member.

 

[longevity]

Thanks for the clarification! Yes, you’re right, spinach is actually in the Amaranthaceae family, not Brassicaceae. What I wanted to emphasize is that both pok choy and other brassicas contain goitrogens, and spinach does too, but in tortoises, the effect is usually minimal if these greens are fed in moderation as part of a varied diet. Pak choy, in particular, is considered one of the least goitrogenic brassicas.

The bigger concern with spinach is its very high oxalate content, which binds calcium and makes it poorly absorbed. Pak choy, by contrast, has very low oxalates, so calcium is much better absorbed.

That is why I favor pak choy as a regular green, with occasional kale, mustard greens, or other brassicas for variety, while avoiding spinach mainly for the oxalate issue rather than the goitrogens.

Nevertheless, thank you for the reminder about goitrogens. I will take that into consideration for my sully’s future diet planning.

 

[longevity]

I'm not sure if this data can be 100% trusted, but still an interesting comparison:

Nutrition Comparison of Raw Spinach vs Raw Bok Choy (Pak-Choi)

Nutrition Comparison of Raw Spinach vs Raw Bok Choy (Pak-Choi). Compare carbs, fat, protein, vitamins, minerals, and more between different foods or serving sizes. Search the database of over 200,000 foods.

tools.myfooddata.com

By the way, this is a really good site. I can use it to check for other suitable vegetables as well. Thanks!