Foods to clean out the digestive tract?

[CrystalsFamily]

Glad to hear he is eating something. Is he more active now?

Hopefully @ascott will chime in on the mineral oil details.

What substrate are you using? Any possibility it was new to him when you got him, he tried to eat it and now its a problem? Does what came out resemble it?

Not to alarm you further but, while flashing is normal, given his condition I would start monitoring how often it occurs, if it retracts easily and if he seems to be struggling while its happening. There have been couple threads where a lethargic/sick tortoise started to flash, eventually not retracting and ultimately passing away, pointing to something wrong was happening on the inside. Perhaps keep that Xray option open.

Hi over here, Mike. Substrate is coco coir with zoomed repti-bark on top, and what he passed did not resemble it. I believe it is also what they used at the petstore.

He's only eating nibbles now and again, and while I would say he's more alert (eyes open more, head moving around), I wouldn't say he's a lot more active or anywhere near healthy level.

I will keep an eye out for the flashing. I don't know if it's happened before. I had a better view of him in the big bathtub than in his little soak tub. Pee came out each time, a lot the 3rd time, but I assume they don't push the penis out every time they pee. He did not seem to be struggling.

Will keep up the soaks, deluxe version when I can, and go for warmer temps once again. And keep that xray in mind, maybe start researching it with one of the vet hospitals.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I personally would give him about 1/2 an eye dropper of mineral oil. It won't hurt, just grease him up some. You need to be quick, but you can carefully grab his head with one hand, force his mouth open with the other, and have someone else do the eye dropper thing. Good luck and keep us posted...

 

[ascott]

Maggie is absolutely correct....just get him lubed up...also--it will take a few days before you will likely see any real changes in the overall behavior of the tort....and the warmth during day and night should be put in place....I would not allow the night temps to drop below 80 while the health of the tort is in question....

 

[CrystalsFamily]

Glad to hear he is eating something. Is he more active now?

Hopefully @ascott will chime in on the mineral oil details.

What substrate are you using? Any possibility it was new to him when you got him, he tried to eat it and now its a problem? Does what came out resemble it?

Not to alarm you further but, while flashing is normal, given his condition I would start monitoring how often it occurs, if it retracts easily and if he seems to be struggling while its happening. There have been couple threads where a lethargic/sick tortoise started to flash, eventually not retracting and ultimately passing away, pointing to something wrong was happening on the inside. Perhaps keep that Xray option open.

Hi over here, Mike. Substrate is coco coir with zoomed repti-bark on top, and what he passed did not resemble it. I believe the repti-bark is also what they used at the petstore.

He's only eating nibbles now and again, and while I would say he's more alert (eyes open more, head moving around), I wouldn't say he's a lot more active or anywhere near healthy level. But it's improvement....

I will keep an eye out for the flashing. I don't know if it's happened before. I had a better view of him in the big bathtub than in his little soak tub. Pee came out each time, a lot the 3rd time, but I assume they don't push the penis out every time they pee. He did not seem to be struggling.

Will keep up the soaks, deluxe version when I can, and go for warmer temps once again. And keep that xray in mind, maybe start researching it with one of the vet hospitals.

 

[rileylee]

That is great!

 

[Yvonne G]

I used to do the dropper-down-the-throat-thing with mineral oil until one day I mentioned it to my vet and she advised me to NOT do this. She said that because the mineral oil is smooth it might not be recognised in the mouth and might accidentally be aspirated into the lungs. If you want to lube up the pipes from the mouth it would be a better idea to put the mineral oil on or in a bite of food.

 

[CrystalsFamily]

I used to do the dropper-down-the-throat-thing with mineral oil until one day I mentioned it to my vet and she advised me to NOT do this. She said that because the mineral oil is smooth it might not be recognised in the mouth and might accidentally be aspirated into the lungs. If you want to lube up the pipes from the mouth it would be a better idea to put the mineral oil on or in a bite of food.

Thanks Yvonne. I don't think I feel so comfortable forcing his mouth open anyway. Trick is to get him to eat something and/or to know what that will be, to put the mineral oil on it. Will keep trying different foods, but so far it's like when he doesn't eat, he doesn't eat, regardless of what's presented.

 

[marcy4hope]

when i had problems with mine, i also used mineral oil. but, i put it on the food. the only thing she would eat at the time was mazuri so i soaked a couple pieces of mazuri and used an eye dropper to squirt the mineral oil down in the mazuri. don't know if it really helped anything, but i don't think it hurt anything. just made her poo slimier looking.

the other thing i noticed with mine was that while i had difficulty getting her to eat her usually grocery store greens, she would graze pretty good if she was out in the grass, especially dandelions. so, i took her out every day just to make sure she got something, even if it was just a few dandelions.

i'd also recommend the xray. i'd at least want to know what i was dealing with. the vet i took mine to basically only provided an xray. he had experience with reptiles, but said all he knew about the bladder stones was that it would take surgery and he didn't do it. i told him not to worry and i went home and took care of her myself. most of what i did was off of advice found here. the vet was actually in total shock when i took her back 3 months later for a follow up xray and the stones were gone.

 

[CrystalsFamily]

He seems to be eating a little more, I think since efforts to keep him warmer. And this morning I was able to hand feed him most of the piece of spring mix that had the mineral oil (success!), so cross fingers about that. Will get more watery food choices at grocery store today and do another bathtub treatment. If improvement isn't consistent, will look into xray/ CT scan this week.

 

[CrystalsFamily]

when i had problems with mine, i also used mineral oil. but, i put it on the food. the only thing she would eat at the time was mazuri so i soaked a couple pieces of mazuri and used an eye dropper to squirt the mineral oil down in the mazuri. don't know if it really helped anything, but i don't think it hurt anything. just made her poo slimier looking.

the other thing i noticed with mine was that while i had difficulty getting her to eat her usually grocery store greens, she would graze pretty good if she was out in the grass, especially dandelions. so, i took her out every day just to make sure she got something, even if it was just a few dandelions.

i'd also recommend the xray. i'd at least want to know what i was dealing with. the vet i took mine to basically only provided an xray. he had experience with reptiles, but said all he knew about the bladder stones was that it would take surgery and he didn't do it. i told him not to worry and i went home and took care of her myself. most of what i did was off of advice found here. the vet was actually in total shock when i took her back 3 months later for a follow up xray and the stones were gone.

Speaking of dandelions, now that it's Spring here (at least for the moment!), there are dandelions in the yard. But we just moved to this house, and I don't know what the lawn's been treated with in the past. I'd like to offer those, but would be concerned about that. Do others agree?

I don't think it's warm enough outside to take him out yet, especially when he's not well. And I'm not set up with an outside enclosure yet either.

 

[ascott]

I would agree, it is better to error on the side of caution ....I personally would not offer the dandi's without knowing...

 

[CrystalsFamily]

Last night after bathtub, Crystal's appetite was pretty good! This has happened before, for about a week, but he didn't poop and then backslid. So it will be poop that really excites me. But I enjoyed hand feeding him a little "burrito" of lettuce wrapped around pumpkin.

I assume I should give the mineral oil a few days and then I can repeat if there are no results??

He also flashed again (what is it about the bathtub? The activity?), but not for long and it retracted easily....

 

[ascott]

I would offer him the mineral oil for at least another week, along with long warm water soaks....

 

[CrystalsFamily]

I would offer him the mineral oil for at least another week, along with long warm water soaks....

So you mean mineral oil every day? (Just to be clear.) Or wait and see if the first dose helped first?

 

[ascott]

I would offer it up a couple more days at least once a day and also offer the warm water soaks....this is just what I would do.

 

[sibi]

I used to do the dropper-down-the-throat-thing with mineral oil until one day I mentioned it to my vet and she advised me to NOT do this. She said that because the mineral oil is smooth it might not be recognised in the mouth and might accidentally be aspirated into the lungs. If you want to lube up the pipes from the mouth it would be a better idea to put the mineral oil on or in a bite of food.

My thought exactly! I often put mineral oil in some mazuri. Also, there' the other end to inject some mineral oil too. You can get him coming and going. Btw, I think, based on what you've stated, your tort may have stones in the bladder. X-rays is a must. You don't need to get a c-scan. Blockages, whether in the intestines or the bladder will show up. Knowing what you're up against is half the battle. Check the "ash" content of any greens, mazuri, or foods you feed your tort. Ash has been known to cause urine to crystallize and cause obstructions in the bladder. Also, Ascott gave you some really good advice to get things moving in there. Keep doing that while watching the foods he's nibbling on. Your tort knows he's sick, and is trying to remedy his ill by going after greens. IF you find that it's an obstruction from something he was exposed to at the pet shop, then it just has to make its way out. Their system works extremely slow especially if they are sick. It may be weeks before anything comes out if an obstruction can be seen on x-rays. And if there is an obstruction in the intestines, and weeks of trying to remedy it fails, you may have to go to a specialized hosp for surgical removal. But, that's getting ahead of ourselves. First get that x-rays done!

 

[CrystalsFamily]

As an update, Crystal is continuing to eat better -- more food and with more gusto -- although not consistently back to healthy level. (Thank goodness he was healthy for 1.5 weeks of the almost 3 mos we've had him, or I wouldn't know how to judge!) He is more alert and active as well, getting himself up in the morning and looking for food. He's also doing more things that he used to like spending time in the hide and digging down in there and in his favorite corner.

Yesterday and today, he passed urates for the first time since this all began -- don't know if that detail might mean anything to anyone, other than that he's eating.

The small, string-shaped poops are coming more often and looking softer. There was also one extremely small, but more normal-looking (mushy, green) bit of poop the other day (a little slimy, presumably from the mineral oil). I take all this as evidence of intestinal blockage -- although I don't know whether to think that he is slowly passing the blockage itself bit by bit, or that these poops are string-shaped because they're having to get around a blockage.

@sibi, I would be interested in knowing what specifically you think suggests bladder stones vs. intestinal blockage. Also, thanks for the info about ash content. I had a quick look and saw that the Zoomed Grassland Tortoise food I had been using to up fiber intake says 10% ash -- but I don't know whether that's high or fine. Do others use this? When he was eating well, I had been wetting 2-3 pellets and tossing them in his salad. I haven't used it much since he's started eating again, because I'm more focused on getting watery things in him. I have Mazuri now, and it has no ash content, but he's never once gone for it -- perhaps if I toss it into the salad. But I'm not sure it would substitute for the Grassland in terms of fiber?

I am continuing to keep temps always above 80 and up to 115 under the basking light, to soak 2-3X/day (in the big bathtub whenever I can and 1x/day with baby food), and gave more mineral oil yesterday and today.

 

[tortadise]

Spaghetti squash is a natural dewormer as well within food sources. You don't really want to wipe all the gut bacteria out though. Gut flora has a lot of good microbes, and bacteria in their as well.

 

[sibi]

I mentioned stones in the bladder because of the symptoms. It can just as well be an intestinal blockage. But, like I suggested, only x-rays can confirm that. Also, I've had a barium solution done on my rescue because of some blockage issue. It turned out to be stones in the bladder; not intestinal blockage. The barium solution made its way out of her system over a 2 month period!!! But, not blockage in her intestines. It took that long to clear out because her blockage was stones in her bladder, and it made it difficult to pass fecal matter through a very tight space. Have you done x-rays yet?

 

[CrystalsFamily]

I mentioned stones in the bladder because of the symptoms. It can just as well be an intestinal blockage. But, like I suggested, only x-rays can confirm that. Also, I've had a barium solution done on my rescue because of some blockage issue. It turned out to be stones in the bladder; not intestinal blockage. The barium solution made its way out of her system over a 2 month period!!! But, not blockage in her intestines. It took that long to clear out because her blockage was stones in her bladder, and it made it difficult to pass fecal matter through a very tight space. Have you done x-rays yet?

Thanks for clarifying (symptoms of both are the same) and sharing your experience. I haven't done x-rays yet. I'm not ready to jump on it, just because I am actually seeing improvement, and it's more significant improvement than I have seen in the past when he's then backslid. If he is in fact getting better, then this probably isn't the right time for further measures that would be stressful for him. But I have called the vet today to talk it through with her and get a referral for where I could have them done, so that I can be ready act on it if the improvement doesn't continue, or if I begin to see any backsliding at all.

Do you know of any guidelines for what level of ash content is ok? (I can try this question on the vet too.)