Free Roaming Torts?

[Laurie]

There are a few things you don't seem to understand.
1. No one is "bashing" inside living. Almost all of us rely on our indoor housing for at least some of the time with most species and most climates.
2. What we ARE doing is recommending and promoting "outdoor" time as it is HUGELY beneficial for them.
3. They do not get their much needed UV through a window, but the sunlight through glass CAN be psychologically beneficial. However, people must be very cautious with putting enclosures near windows. Many tortoises have died as a result of the greenhouse effect over heating their enclosures. You may not have this problem in your particular enclosure, but others who are reading should know to be cautious.
4. Indoor lighting, even when done in the most excellent way possible, is a compromise at best. Electric heat and light is very drying and desiccating and we recently had a post demonstrating the thermodynamics of an overhead bulb vs. actually real outdoor sunshine on a tortoises shell. Thermal imaging was used to show the differences, and it was pretty astounding to actually see it.
5. Tortoises need lots of room to roam. This is actually a necessary part of digestion as locomotion helps to move things through their intestines. In most indoor housing situations, the enclosures are relatively small. Even a 4x8' table is relatively small given the distance a wild one would cover in a day. Outdoors it is much easier to make a very large and interesting enclosure with lots of room to roam, hide out, graze, burrow, and bask in the warm sunshine.
6. Tortoises are not domesticated. Domestication takes 100's of years and many many generations. We are nowhere near that with captive tortoises.
7. Grocery store food is not the best thing for them. Every effort should be made to try to find them weeds, leaves and foods that are better for them.

I hope this helps to explain why so many of us promote outdoor housing so much.

It's funny how people can take things so differently. I read this post of Toms and thought "this is some great information", apparently the OP found it offensive. I don't think it was intended to be rude.

TayTay, as Tom said no one is bashing indoor living. My tortoises live indoors during the winter, but you really can't argue the benefit they receive from natural sunshine, space and grazing.

---

And..... Tom, you don't know EVERYTHING?!? I'm shocked

 

[Masin]

I think Tom does a good job of explaining things in a non-demeaning way. It's interesting that in all my years on forums that here I do notice ever so often what appears to be (key word APPEARS) kinda "know it all" as you put it attitudes. With that said, I've been on forums that may be reflecting a part of someone's life (ball pythons, soap making, vegan living etc) yet none of those interests, hobbies, careers, lifestyles and so on have skimmed the service of the dedication and years a lot of people have put into tortoises here. (I'm not saying anything bad about the above forums.)
I think about comments on here often and I've come to that conclusion. A lot of the projects these folks go into last the keepers lifetime, if you're not breeding or going into a project in another way you may have had the serious talk with yourself about the lifelong commitment that is a tortoise owning you, you're passionate either way. Sharing our lives with torts also leads us to environmental things at times, another passionate area. Either way, it's text on a screen, I try to type exactly how I am thinking because I understand there might be someone reading into something or the more common, thinking there is a specific tone in my words that isn't there. Breathe and read again, message the person and try to clear things up.
Now Tom thinks he's all knowing! Good job!

 

[laney]

Hi,
My two babies live inside (for now) I live on my own so I know they won't get hurt by not knowing where they are. I tortoise proof areas for when they roam (everyday) so they can't eat electrics etc. They really like wondering around my apartment. When its nice (not very often here) I take them outside which is great I live in Scotland and its rarely warm but when I have a place with a garden I am going to build an outdoor play area for them, maybe with some sort of heated hut for them. I love them inside and will worry about them outdoors in the future but I know health wise it will benefit them.
I can see both sides of the debate here, I often feel guilty that I don't have a huge garden for them but I know that I am providing a good life for them and strive to make it superb in the future.

 

[ascott]

As long as you make sure your tort can (1) find the temperature it wants, (2) has access, at all times, to fresh water, (3) finds no hazards to swallow, and (4) you don't mind cleaning up the occasional "out-of-the-water-dish accidents", I feel it's a viable way to share your home with your tortoise.

Just be sure to "tortoise-proof" your dwelling.

I agree here as well as I have to say that, in my opinion, as much outdoor time as possible (in a safe set up) with eventually living outdoors is a good goal.....in the interim you can do what works in your individual setting to provide the things a tort requires...and exercise is just as important as sun or food or water....

 

[kanalomele]

Occasionallt my Russians will come inside on their own. They live outside but if they are looking for a treat they WILL come and find me. It is pretty funny to be at the kitchen sink and feel a tort ramming my feet for a treat. They said I believe they are happier outside, but if you give them what they need they can be successful inside as well. One word of caution however is to keep their area clean of debris. They will try nibbling on everything. Including electrical cords and carpet fuzz.

---

Ironically enough no more than 10 minutes after I posted here about my torts coming in voluntarily, I had one ramming the closed back door looking to come in. I'm a sucker for that little begging face. He is now happily munching on lettuce and some raw corn cob I had set out to make for MY dinner.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

This is a good thread and while I think that outdoors is best, it is what it is. You can have a very loving and conscientious person caring for their tortoise in a way that is not ideal but is acceptable where as you can have a person who doesn't really care about the health and well being of their tortoise and leaves them outside in a situation that is less than ideal. Who's way is better? I think that people need to be well informed and then make the decision that will work best for them. I would never get a tortoise and deliberately do things that are going to compromise their health and well being. I think that is why this is such a great forum. I think that all of us, for the most part, is that caring and conscientious person doing the best we can with what we have. Your way may be better than my way but we are learning and growing and I am reading as much as I can so I make fewer mistakes. Is outside better? Absolutely but you can do inside well.

 

[Tom]

People run the whole spectrum on this one. There are some things that are great about outside, but inside is a necessity in most cases too. I don't think it's a question of someone's way being "better". There are just too many different situations. For example if I had adult Russians or Hermanns, here in my climate, I would build the right enclosure and leave them outside all the time. Something I intend for the near future. But for my sulcata hatchlings, in my area, I don't think outside all the time is "better". For brand new hatchlings, I think an hour or two of daily sun is best, but I prefer to leave them in their indoor enclosure for 22-23 hours each day. Of course I increase the time outside as they gain size.

What I'm saying is that what is "best" is an ever changing thing depending on the weather, the season, the size of the tortoise, the species, outside humidity, time of day, angle of the sun in your yard, etc... There are times when my inside enclosure is best for them and there are times when a nice daily dose of sunshine is best for them. Personally, I could not do with out either my indoor or my outdoor enclosures. Both are necessary, in my opinion, to do things the "best" way.

 

[taytay3391]

Personally I believe that you should do what you want. It's your own tortoise and you have your own belief of what is good so follow your intuition. Someone can tell you what they think is best but really who gives a hoot what they think. They don't know everything and neither do you so again, follow what YOU want. Yayyyyyyyy

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Personally I believe that you should do what you want.

Some have chosen to keep their tortoises under incandescent lights only and feed them iceberg lettuce and catfood, because THAT'S what's convenient...I've taken in tortoises that were treated in such a manner and a few got well, eventually.

Sadly, most did not, though. Advanced kidney failure and MBD is hard to fix.

It's your own tortoise and you have your own belief of what is good so follow your intuition.

Learning from the mistakes and successes of others has a lot going for it, too...

Someone can tell you what they think is best but really who gives a hoot what they think.

I do, for one...I appreciate what my fellow chelonophiles can share, because we ALL help one another to be better guardians of these delightful creatures.

When you take a creature into your home and life, you're responsible, in every way, for it forever..

They don't know everything and neither do you so again, follow what YOU want. Yayyyyyyyy

I don't mean to bust your chops, taytay, but I feel I must respectfully disagree...for your tort's sake, learn everything you can, from folks more experienced, so as to be able to do what's right for your pet.

You've come to the right place, and there is a lot of knowledge here for but the asking.

 

[*Barracuda_50*]

Torts should get as much outside time as possible, not only for excersize and sunshine but for some good naturel grazing with weather and tempature permitting. Our tort kids get as much outdoor time as possible when its warm enough and sunny out they need it as they have to spend winter months indoors 24-7 for about 6 months.
So we want them to get as much time as they can outdoors durring the summer months. There always happier and more healthier when given outdoor time.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

I think that this forum is a great place with lots of resources on how we can better care for our torts. You can go with the whole "who cares what other people think" idea, but that is the reason we come here, to find out from people who have more experience the best way to take care of our torts. I think if you listen to the advice of people who have a lot of experience than you will experience less heartache for yourself and your tortoise. You are ultimately responsible for your pet and I think that you should do the best you can with what you have. I personally have a lot of respect for the members of this forum and when I find out that I am doing something that is not good for my torts, I change it. I ask questions, I read advice and I am hoping to be a better keeper because of it. Tortoises need to be outside in the fresh air, when the weather permits. I think there is more good to them being outside than just getting UVB. Mine are so perky outside and seem so happy. I would think others would take theirs outside because it is good for them. It might not always be easy but what is? I think you need to have the benefits from the outside and the safety from the inside. I will stop rambling now, but I would not discount what people say who have so much experience, you might wish you had listened.

 

[Madkins007]

Personally I believe that you should do what you want. It's your own tortoise and you have your own belief of what is good so follow your intuition. Someone can tell you what they think is best but really who gives a hoot what they think. They don't know everything and neither do you so again, follow what YOU want. Yayyyyyyyy

May I ask what your background and/or experience is in this area? (I'm also very curious about your age, but that is less pertinent.)

I agree that there is not a single 'best' way to keep this sort of animal in captivity, but there are some guidelines that people have worked out- sometimes by seeing what happens in the field, sometimes by clinical studies, sometimes by trial and error, and, sadly, sometimes when a tortoise dies because of someone's cares. I am unaware of anyone who just has some sort of gut instinct for caring for animals so physiologically different than humans.

Most of us here have a system that works well for us and are willing to freely share the results of our experiences and/or research. Some of the folks here have hundreds and thousands of dollars tied up in animals, habitats, systems, equipment, books, and so on- and they are willing to share all of the things they have learned for free.

We don't always agree with each other, but I promise you I give a 'hoot' what they think. I am a smart guy who has done my own research and has at least some experience under my belt, but when someone like Tom or Terry Allen Hall or many others talk, I listen.

You certainly can do it your way (yayyyyy!) and things may go perfectly well for you, but there are others who are really appreciative of the help they can get places like this.

 

[taytay3391]

May I ask what your background and/or experience is in this area? (I'm also very curious about your age, but that is less pertinent.)

I agree that there is not a single 'best' way to keep this sort of animal in captivity, but there are some guidelines that people have worked out- sometimes by seeing what happens in the field, sometimes by clinical studies, sometimes by trial and error, and, sadly, sometimes when a tortoise dies because of someone's cares. I am unaware of anyone who just has some sort of gut instinct for caring for animals so physiologically different than humans.

Most of us here have a system that works well for us and are willing to freely share the results of our experiences and/or research. Some of the folks here have hundreds and thousands of dollars tied up in animals, habitats, systems, equipment, books, and so on- and they are willing to share all of the things they have learned for free.

We don't always agree with each other, but I promise you I give a 'hoot' what they think. I am a smart guy who has done my own research and has at least some experience under my belt, but when someone like Tom or Terry Allen Hall or many others talk, I listen.

You certainly can do it your way (yayyyyy!) and things may go perfectly well for you, but there are others who are really appreciative of the help they can get places like this.

We're done with this. You must have missed it.

 

[lynnedit]

We're done with this. You must have missed it.

Actually, it is an interesting thread and also public. No one has to read it, but the rest of us can learn from it.

 

[mainey34]

Mine has free roam outside.

 

[BowandWalter]

Walter lives outside all summer (except for at night) and is in all winter, or when it's really terrible out. Canada holds a bit of a random factor on weather. I've moved away from home and am attending university, but my roommate and I still take Walter to my cousins every chance we get so he can run around their garden. He's just calmer and more relaxed when he's had roaming time. I'm genuinely worried about winter when doesn't have the option to go out at all. As to the original question; am I guilty of letting him run around my rooms after his morning soak? Yes, I do it every morning. But I have my room tortoise proofed, and heated. Unless something crazy happens his hour of running around is safe. I don't see it as bad if you have everything set up correctly.

On a side note, I've never felt like I've lost myself by listening to the knowledge of people who have been at something longer then me.
Though sometimes I do feel like standing up in Biology labs while screaming "THIS IS MADNESS!". I think that's the sleep deprivation talking though.

 

[taytay3391]

Actually, it is an interesting thread and also public. No one has to read it, but the rest of us can learn from it.

I meant the fighting back and forth. Jeebus people are nice here. A mod specifically posted in here saying enough was enough. That it was becoming off topic.

 

[Tortus]

I've had bad luck letting my pets free roam. Even for short "exercise" periods. I had a bearded dragon that disappeared for several months. I thought it died, but I guess it went into a state of hibernation. It was in the house somewhere all winter. I turned the place upside down. It must have squeezed in some little crevice and stayed there. Then one day when the weather got warm it was sitting in the middle of the living room floor.

Another time my roommate let it out on the screened porch for a while. He turned his back for a second and it found a way out. It was outside in the back yard somewhere all summer. Then when the weather got cold it was sitting on the back steps. I couldn't believe it.

I don't plan on letting my tortoise out of my sight for a second if I do give it some floor time. I learned my lesson. It's stressful not knowing where your pets are or if they're alive or dead. I'd rather keep mine secure from now on.