Candy said:Madkins007 said:Candy said:And if you do that Mark then who wins? The idiots that think it's manly to go and kill off innocent animals? Those people did not look like they were starving to me and I would never keep my account with anyone who did this for his so called "Vacation Time." Kalina and others like me are the type of people who make people aware of what's happening out there so don't try to stop us from doing that by making telling them that they'll make themselves sick by being activists for it. More people should become involved and then disgusting people like this guy wouldn't be flashing their so called "Animal Prizes" around. To bad the elephants didn't get the chance to turn on them in the dark, that's the way I see it.
1. Who wins? Tell me who is loosing first. I know that it reduces the number of elephants, but apparently the government in that area has decided that there are enough elephants to support some hunting, but who (as in a human) is loosing in this scenario?
2. Killing innocent animals is what ALL predators do, and like it or not, humans are a predatory species. It is your opinion that we should not. You are certainly welcome to hold an opinion, but the flip side of that is to respect the opinion of others- and I don't see a lot of that in this sort of discussion.
3. Don't tell me to get more involved.
a.) You have no idea what I am involved in. I put a lot of time and money in several causes, some animal related. To assume that just because I am not with you on this one, I must be an uncaring jerk that does not care about issues is just plain wrong of you. Shame on you for making such an arrogant assumption. Shame on you!
b.) Real activists choose their battles and fight them in the real world. Posting a video and telling is all to get mad about it does very little to actually fix anything. It is like fighting AIDS by wearing a ribbon. Good for you- you have an opinion. The important thing is to ACT on that belief in a way that makes a real difference for that issue.
Let's use Japan as an example. For all practical purposes, posts like the OP here are showing videos of the tragedy and trying to get is all to feel sorry and emotional. A REAL activist would be posting info on what we can do to REALLY help- links for donations, for example. I rarely see that in these posts.
You may say that your 'actions step' here is to take business away from GoDaddy. OK, that punishes the hunter, but how does that help the elephants you claim to be supporting? Or the problems the villagers have living with the elephants?
4. 'Too bad the elephants don't get the chance to turn around in the dark'? I can admire the empathy you have for the animals, but this does not show a lot of empathy for humans. Why would it be OK for the elephant to kill the human but not the other way around?
I think this sentence said a lot about you, Candy, and the kind of person you are.
Gee Mark let me turn this back around on you, shame on you for saying that one sentence will tell you what I'm all about.
I did not say it said it was what you were all about. I said it says a lot about you that you wished the elephant would have killed the human.
I thought that you were more intelligent then that, but maybe I'm wrong. You say to know about your cause, but can you tell me what does anyone on here know about these people, probably not much, that's what. I dare to make the comment that very few even watched this video and if they did I would like to know what kind of crop that was that the elephants were stomping on? Can you also tell me what happened two years ago in this village or even 5 years ago in this village and if they've always had problems like these, no you can't.
I know MY causes. I also know something about the problems farmers have had in Africa with the megafauna for the last 50+ years. It is a deeply complex problem rooted in culture, politics, and poverty. (By the way, the crop in the videos is sorghum- it even says it in the video.)
This idiot films a video of killing a innocent animal just doing what it does naturally and nobody has the intelligence to question any of it. There are other ways to deter elephants away from areas did anyone research how to do this before they pulled their guns out, no they didn't. That's obvious by watching the video.
Sure- expensive techniques that work sometimes and most of the villages cannot afford. Have you sent any the villagers money for the protections systems to help protect the elephants?
Our local nature center has a massive overabundance of White-tail deer- they were damaging native plants badly and getting diseases from over-crowding. They researched options and most cost several hundred to over a thousand per deer- here in a well-industrialized place with lots of options and money.
There solution was a managed hunt- quick, cheap, effective. Many people protested, heavily, but none of the protesters responded when given the chance to help fund other options. This is just one example I have seen that makes me uninterested in activists or protesters that support causes verbally, but not with money or time spent on the issue itself (rather than just protesting it.)
By the way, we kill animals here in the US for the same reasons- doing what they do naturally, but doing it too close to us. I love reptiles, but I know people who kill rattlesnakes on their property to protect their families, and I am OK with that, even though the snakes are locally endangered and there are other ways to control them- but they are not very effective and are expensive. I bet you would do the same thing in similar circumstances.
Reread what I said Mark, "More people should get involved." Did you see your name personally written in this comment. Am I supposed to know you that well that I think you would take this to heart? If you did then maybe you have something else to think about.
You made a comment implying that people need to get involved. I pointed out that people ARE involved and you were being arrogant in assuming they were not. The issue seems to be that people are just not involved in what YOU think is important.
Real activists would post for donations, are you serious? Then they would just say (like they always do) that we're just trying to get the money and not fight for the cause. If you don't understand what I mean then try reading Laura's thread about the dog that was abused and needed a new home. Whenever any activist organization brings up money (like Peta) they always fall back on "Their just trying to get money again." Well Duh! How would they run without any support funds?
I think that says more about you and PETA than the generosity of people here and in other places. There are other programs that are less controversial that are accomplishing the same things, like the African Elephant Trust, or the World Wildlife Fund. At least groups like this work on the ground with a better understanding of the whole issue.
And about helping the elephants by taking the humans away, the only thing that I can say to that is if the humans were not there we would have one more elephant in Africa today.
Heck, why stop there? Human hunters probably caused the extinction of most mammoths and mastadons in the New World.
I don't post things for people to blinding follow what is said, that would be up to you to now find out if I'm right or not. I'm talking about facts here not emotional opinions. People need to ask their own questions and don't just believe what you are told.
LMAO! It is so much fun to wind you up and let you go!
Just because you think someones opinion is not right does not mean that it doesn't have merit to it. They just might see it differently and in different times in our lives so do we. Throughout our lives we change our thought patterns and we hopefully tend to grow both in intelligence and hopefully empathy and emotionally, this is why it's called growing up.
I've never said or thought otherwise.
I will not stand back and watch animals be brutally killed for one mans ego. This is who I am Mark, so don't pretend to know me either just by what you read. I will not apologize to anyone for standing up for what I believe in where animals are concerned, or children or anything else that I feel needs my help and I certainly will not turn a blind eye to it just because others have insults and think that they can intimate with that instead of real facts.
Nor is anyone asking you to change your concerns. I'm just suggesting that you are not approaching your concerns in a way that is helping your causes. Has anything you or Kalina done here really made a difference to the actual lives of living whales, elephants, etc.? Have you managed to raise funds for PETA from here?
Not really, and it has nothing to do with the worthiness of your causes, it is all in how you are presenting yourselves. You are not winning over hearts and minds. You are an adult and you already know this.
There are ways you guys could have presented these causes and rallied the entire forum behind you, but you guys made the choice to approach it in a more aggressive way.
And wearing a ribbon for a cause is a good thing because it makes people ask questions Mark and that's where it all starts!
There are not many 'ribbon causes' that people have a lot of questions about, and people are pretty well trained to not ask questions like that of strangers. It is a bit like inviting a Jehovah's Witness to chat about the literature they are carrying. Again- there are better, smarter, more effective options.
(snip)
"Oh, boy! PETA is going to after a rich schmuck who did not break any laws and is just one doofus doing this out of thousands! I am so relieved. Now the elephants will be safe."
Mark, I don't even know how I would post a comment to this kind of post. Wow! All I could say is it starts with one step. I've got to admit though I'm really surprised at the childish way this is written.
And you don't think PETA going after him is not childish? It is a grandstanding action that is not accomplishing anything specifically to help elephants although it is going to get some press. He already got his elephant- taking action against him is not going to stop the next guy.
How does dropping GoDaddy accounts help elephants? It sends a message to the CEO to not do it again, but what does it do about the actual conflict between elephants and locals?
Before this goes too much further, a quick reminder... I do not think either of us have posted anything here in anger, and I like to think that people like us can disagree, even on issues that are important to us, but still respect each other as individuals.
In other words, I hope we can discuss things like this in these threads, and still help each other in tortoise care or question forums= and I think we can.