greek or hermann

[HtVic]

do greek and hermann hibernate?

Ibera Greeks, Hermanns, and Russians can all brumate for several months during wintertime. Marginateds, Egyptians, and southern Greeks (including Golden Greeks) come from hotter climates, so although they can go through short dormant periods, they do not brumate through cold winters the way their northern cousins do. All Testudo species, however, can aestivate in the summer when the weather gets too hot.

I live in Canada, right now is winter time until March before spring, if I get a Hermann hatchling now, should I let it brumate, or I have to wait until next winter?

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she is so gorgeous, that's the shell i like, but i thought eastern Hermann their shell suppose to be darker.
I think Emrys is one outstanding tort

Thank you.

As I said, typically the Hermann's here are quite a bit darker than Emrys - these were Emrys' siblings and tank-mates.

But obviously tortoises with his colouring will be out there. I specifically think they're more common with a few generations at least of captive breeding. Emrys has an abnormality in the number of vertebral scutes, too, which is a signifier that there may have been some inbreeding going on that caused my little oddball.

And in contrast, Western Hermann's which I'm personally not as keen on:

yea it could be, I think I will go for hermann

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

I live in Canada, right now is winter time until March before spring, if I get a Hermann hatchling now, should I let it brumate, or I have to wait until next winter?

Although hatchlings are technically capable of brumation, and do so naturally in the wild, it is more dangerous for them. Wild hibernating tortoises do experience some mortality during the wintertime, probably because some of them are not in good enough condition, and so they don't make it through. That is why tortoise keepers do not hibernate their baby tortoises. It's also a good idea not to hibernate tortoises that you have just acquired, regardless of age, just in case there is something wrong you are not aware of.

If you get a tortoise right now - whether baby or adult - in mid-February, do not let it hibernate this year. Wait until November at the earliest, or even until the following winter if need be, to make sure it is healthy enough. Brumation is a natural part of the annual cycle for Hermann, Ibera Greek, and Russian tortoises, but it is not for individuals who are very young, very old, or have an illness. Kind of like jogging for us.

 

[Bow]

the reptile store called me today, said Greek and Hermann will be in stock the end of Feb.
It is time for me to decide which one to get.
I read so many care sheet, books, watched ton of videos, picture, they both similar in appearance, some in living condition.
but I like the one with a bright shell, beautiful color pattern when they fully grow. they all look the same at baby time.

they didn''t tell what species of both of them, but I am guessing the most common species.

I live in Canada too! I have a hermann's tortoise. Walter is very beautiful and has the character to match.





Out of curiosity, which reptile store did you find that would order them? I had the devil of a time finding any tortoises when I started looking.

 

[HtVic]

I live in Canada, right now is winter time until March before spring, if I get a Hermann hatchling now, should I let it brumate, or I have to wait until next winter?

Although hatchlings are technically capable of brumation, and do so naturally in the wild, it is more dangerous for them. Wild hibernating tortoises do experience some mortality during the wintertime, probably because some of them are not in good enough condition, and so they don't make it through. That is why tortoise keepers do not hibernate their baby tortoises. It's also a good idea not to hibernate tortoises that you have just acquired, regardless of age, just in case there is something wrong you are not aware of.

If you get a tortoise right now - whether baby or adult - in mid-February, do not let it hibernate this year. Wait until November at the earliest, or even until the following winter if need be, to make sure it is healthy enough. Brumation is a natural part of the annual cycle for Hermann, Ibera Greek, and Russian tortoises, but it is not for individuals who are very young, very old, or have an illness. Kind of like jogging for us.

okay, thanks so much for the info, is there any signs that tort willing to hibernate?

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the reptile store called me today, said Greek and Hermann will be in stock the end of Feb.
It is time for me to decide which one to get.
I read so many care sheet, books, watched ton of videos, picture, they both similar in appearance, some in living condition.
but I like the one with a bright shell, beautiful color pattern when they fully grow. they all look the same at baby time.

they didn''t tell what species of both of them, but I am guessing the most common species.

I live in Canada too! I have a hermann's tortoise. Walter is very beautiful and has the character to match.



View attachment 16748

Out of curiosity, which reptile store did you find that would order them? I had the devil of a time finding any tortoises when I started looking.

depend on which city you live in, I live in Toronto, so there are very few pet stores and reptile stores that willing to order for me, in my case, my name was on the waiting list, when they have tortoise in stock, they just contacted me.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

okay, thanks so much for the info, is there any signs that tort willing to hibernate?

Yes, turtles that want to hibernate will not feed and will try to stay buried all the time. If you bring them out forcefully, they might - might - feed a little and stay out for a while, but soon they will be back under again, and won't come out. If you observe that, it means your turtle wants to hibernate. If it's doing that at room temperature, though, he will be unable to do so, because he will burn through his fat reserves too quickly and won't last through the whole winter. They need the colder temperatures to slow down their metabolism, and make their fat reserves last. If you observe this behavior, the thing to do is turn off the enclosure's heater(s), let the turtle fast for at least 2-3 weeks so that his gut is emptied, and then let him brumate in a humid substrate in a refrigerator set to 40*F +/- 2*F. If his gut is not emptied, the undigested food will rot, and could eventually kill the turtle.

Although Ibera Greeks, Hermanns, and Russians all hibernate from November to March (4-5 months) in the wild, Russians can probably hibernate even longer (up to 6 months). According to Andy C. Highfield of the Tortoise Trust, though, Ibera Greeks and Hermanns should not be hibernated longer than 3 months in captivity, and Russians no longer than 5 months at the outside.

Remember, in captivity a tortoise might not want to hibernate. If artificial lighting is strong enough, if indoor temperatures are high enough (and maybe humid enough, too), then he might still feel like it's "summertime," and be perfectly willing to stay awake. If so, that's fine. Box turtles, Hermanns, and Ibera Greeks seem a lot more willing to do this than Russian tortoises, probably because they come from environments where it is possible to be active for at least part of the winter, in at least part of their range. Not so for Russians, because Central Asian winters are harsher, and necessitate not only inactivity, but burrowing as well.

There is lots of debate as to whether it's healthier for turtles to brumate or not. In my view, hibernation does appear to be healthier, if no other reason than it appears to have bearing on reproduction. I found that my box turtles felt like mating if I let them hibernate, but did not if I overwintered them. I have yet to breed my Russians (they are still too young), but I have read that this applies to Testudo species, too. Basically, it's thought that letting the body rest during hibernation ramps up their hormones in the springtime and makes it more likely that they will not only mate, but also actually conceive. Some authors think that letting northern species hibernate is also better for the liver and kidneys, and claim that individuals that are allowed to hibernate tend to live longer.

So, in my view, a healthy box turtle or tortoise should be allowed to hibernate if at all possible. Skipping a year or two is probably fine, but in the long run, I suspect it's better to let them do what comes naturally. There are others who disagree, and some people here on TFO have had success not hibernating their tortoises, even with breeding. So, it depends.

Sometimes, though, a turtle just really wants to hibernate. It seems that boxies, Hermanns, and Ibera Greeks can be "persuaded" to stay awake during winter, perhaps becoming a bit less active and eating less, but nevertheless not brumating. Seems like Russian tortoises, though, are much more likely to try and hibernate, even at room temperature, unless their enclosure really has a lot of light, ambient temperatures are really warm, and perhaps the air is not as dry. In my case, my Russians really wanted to hibernate. Despite living indoors, they still picked up on shortening natural day length, and perhaps indoor temperatures cooled off a bit, too. The air probably got drier as well. They stayed under for all of October, unless I dug them up, in which case they soon burrowed again. So, in November I put them in the fridge and let them hibernate. I will be taking them back out again in April (5 months). If I had Hermanns or Ibera Greeks, I probably would have already taken them out this month (February - 3 months).

 

[HtVic]

thanks, that's a great tip, but sometimes, its hard to adjust.
those signs are similar when they are about to be sick.
also, "let him brumate in a humid substrate in a refrigerator set to 40*F +/- 2*F"
can I bring him outside of the balcony, because winter time is cold in Canada, even lower, can it survive?

"If artificial lighting is strong enough, if indoor temperatures are high enough (and maybe humid enough, too), then he might still feel like it's "summertime," and be perfectly willing to stay awake. If so, that's fine." according to this, if so, do we just break the ecology cycle, because in the nature, they are suppose to be hibernate at this point. should we like force them to hibernate?

ok never mind, i got the answer from the end, ignore this...lol

thanks so much for answering with your own experience...