New to tortoises from Ohio and just got 2 female hermann tortoises for my young granddaughters. And we all LOVE them. One is 4 and one is 5 is what I was told. I soak them every other day and bath them once I week. Feed them 2x a day a mixture of red and green leaf lettuce,mustard collard and turnip greens along with occasional raddicio lettuce and Zucchini squash. But my question is the 5yr old one hides all the time. I have to find her and pull her to eat, she eats and goes back to burrowing. I have a pic below of the enclosure and would appreciate any feedback. The basking area is between 95 and 100 the enclosure is between 75 and 85. I do have a heat lamp in the back that is on a in case it gets colder thermostat and recently added a smaller basking area with the 10.0 uvb bulb in case the other one was not sufficient. I have taken her to the vet and she said she looks great but she did have a little pyramiding when I got her so I am trying to make sure that doesn't get worse. But can anyone give me any suggestions with why she hides all the time. I can see if there is a lot of noise or traffic but the 4x6 enclosure is in my attached garage. And i do have a thermostatic heater that runs in the winter and there is a door that we use so I did put up a shield of sorts in case any severe temperatures The kids do go in the garage but typically she hides whether it is quite or not. Another question does anyone mist their enclosure or run a humidifer. I have read many many articles but haven't found just one to follow and some of the information is very conflicting. Looking forward to any and all ideas. To much light, to little. Nutrition. Substrate etc. Thank you all in advance. Just want to make sure I am doing all I can. Sorry if the pic is a little blurry. All the plants are ok according to the tortoise table
Help. (hides all the time)
- Thread starter Sohara63
- Start date
Welcome to the forum. Tortoises should NOT be kept in pairs. They can bully each other and can die. Separate them immediately. Also what is the difference between you bathe or soak them? Hand mist when the tortoise is not in the enclosure, to moisten the substrate
Littleredfootbigredheart
Well-Known Member
Hello and welcome! This is a lovely space you’ve created!
I know how contradictory and confusing information can be out there! Honestly you can’t go wrong using this place as your only source, you can always challenge answers to get to the nitty gritty of the information you need.
There is a few things of note I hope you don’t mind my mentioning on to hopefully get things on a better track, we all want everyone to have a positive tortoise keeping experience
First up the most pressing matter I’m afraid,
tortoise of any species should NEVER be housed in pairs under any circumstances, they’re incredibly territorial animals, behaviours that look cute to us really aren’t, following one another and sleeping huddled up is all bullying the the tortoise world, you’ll eventually see more extreme signs of aggression. Anyone who tells you pairs are fine, have no idea what they’re talking about. Unfortunately breeders sell pairs all too often.
Small groups are ok when there’s lots of land and the correct male to female ratio.
These two will need separating as soon as possible, the one constantly hiding is likely the one being bullied.
This enclosure, though beautiful, is a bit too small for one adult Herman, let alone two. Each tortoise ideally needs 8x4 minimum, though there are potentially some creative ways to provide the extra roaming room, whilst fitting the space you have better.
For substrate, if that’s hay mixed in ditch that, when adding the moisture needed to the substrate it will mould, if it isn’t, your substrate is too dry, this species aren’t grass eaters anyway.
Damp coco coir or orchid bark is best, some have a damp coir base with bark on top.
In terms of humidity, humidifiers aren’t recommended, a deep damp layer of substrate with overhead heating should create more than enough for adults of this species, perhaps we could get a photo of the one with pyramiding to see if a closed chamber style enclosure would be beneficial for the size she is.
For your lighting, can I ask what bulbs are kept in your double dome fixture? And for your uvb, are you using t5 bulbs? Is the strip light in the back just led for ambient lighting?
The ceramic won’t be very effective with the way it’s mounted, and I would suggest rely solely on the clamp, they have been known to fail and fall in, I’d hang securely with chain directly above.
Hopefully these might come in useful!
I made this thread based on the forums care information and added visual aids, it covers correct equipment(uvb, heating bulbs, lighting etc, double check all bulb types you’re using), correct levels, sizing(more on that later) appropriately maintaining the humidity, safe substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything, and the tortoise table link
tortoiseforum.org
This includes lots of inspiration for an adult set up both indoors and out! The indoor bit has some good ideas to tackle indoor space whilst still providing the needed roaming room! Check comments too, I’m always adding to it. I know the recommended adult size is intimidating to some, especially if you’ve been lead into thinking they’ll be fine in a smaller set up(very common) but tortoises long term health really does rely on lots of roaming room.
tortoiseforum.org
Lastly, this one here is good to go over and keep on hand, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying
tortoiseforum.org
I hope they help! Sorry it’s so much to go over, I know this looks overwhelming! but please take all the time you need, and take all this step by step, we’re more than happy to break and information down! And happy to help step by step, welcome to the forum!
I know how contradictory and confusing information can be out there! Honestly you can’t go wrong using this place as your only source, you can always challenge answers to get to the nitty gritty of the information you need.
There is a few things of note I hope you don’t mind my mentioning on to hopefully get things on a better track, we all want everyone to have a positive tortoise keeping experience
First up the most pressing matter I’m afraid,
tortoise of any species should NEVER be housed in pairs under any circumstances, they’re incredibly territorial animals, behaviours that look cute to us really aren’t, following one another and sleeping huddled up is all bullying the the tortoise world, you’ll eventually see more extreme signs of aggression. Anyone who tells you pairs are fine, have no idea what they’re talking about. Unfortunately breeders sell pairs all too often.
Small groups are ok when there’s lots of land and the correct male to female ratio.
These two will need separating as soon as possible, the one constantly hiding is likely the one being bullied.
This enclosure, though beautiful, is a bit too small for one adult Herman, let alone two. Each tortoise ideally needs 8x4 minimum, though there are potentially some creative ways to provide the extra roaming room, whilst fitting the space you have better.
For substrate, if that’s hay mixed in ditch that, when adding the moisture needed to the substrate it will mould, if it isn’t, your substrate is too dry, this species aren’t grass eaters anyway.
Damp coco coir or orchid bark is best, some have a damp coir base with bark on top.
In terms of humidity, humidifiers aren’t recommended, a deep damp layer of substrate with overhead heating should create more than enough for adults of this species, perhaps we could get a photo of the one with pyramiding to see if a closed chamber style enclosure would be beneficial for the size she is.
For your lighting, can I ask what bulbs are kept in your double dome fixture? And for your uvb, are you using t5 bulbs? Is the strip light in the back just led for ambient lighting?
The ceramic won’t be very effective with the way it’s mounted, and I would suggest rely solely on the clamp, they have been known to fail and fall in, I’d hang securely with chain directly above.
Hopefully these might come in useful!
I made this thread based on the forums care information and added visual aids, it covers correct equipment(uvb, heating bulbs, lighting etc, double check all bulb types you’re using), correct levels, sizing(more on that later) appropriately maintaining the humidity, safe substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything, and the tortoise table link
Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors
Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...
tortoiseforum.org
This includes lots of inspiration for an adult set up both indoors and out! The indoor bit has some good ideas to tackle indoor space whilst still providing the needed roaming room! Check comments too, I’m always adding to it. I know the recommended adult size is intimidating to some, especially if you’ve been lead into thinking they’ll be fine in a smaller set up(very common) but tortoises long term health really does rely on lots of roaming room.
Enclosure inspiration
Howdy folks! Hope everyone is well! As you all know, I’m a big fan of making threads that cater more towards visual learners like myself, I’ve really been wanting to create a thread full of adult enclosure inspiration for a while now, I’ve managed to find some great references over time! I do...
tortoiseforum.org
Lastly, this one here is good to go over and keep on hand, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying
Common keeping errors
Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...
tortoiseforum.org
I hope they help! Sorry it’s so much to go over, I know this looks overwhelming! but please take all the time you need, and take all this step by step, we’re more than happy to break and information down! And happy to help step by step, welcome to the forum!
i will get my husband to build another one for the inside i also let them outside while it is only me watching them and if i have to walk away i have a table built with plants and hiding areas that is probably 6x8. I got the second one after her and she still hid when it was just her. I just keep thinking i have something wrong and desperate to figure it out. So far i love this forum and already have some things to change this evening. it seems like a great and reliable source of information. The only difference i do when i bathe them is brush them, then rinse and dry and put back in enclosure. I clean the bathing and soaking pans which are the same with a repti safe disinfectant and the toothbrush everytime. and after they poop in the water i use another pan to rinse them good before i put them back
Thank you very much i believe i have found my only source of information. i will get them separated asap and try to make the newer enclosure a little bigger i do have an outdoor table that they visit 2 to 3 times week as long as it is nice and that is about 6x8 and i do let them roam the yard since the grass is not treated or anything and we have plenty of clover and weeds they love, but i never leave them alone and do no allow them to roam around when i have the kids over. i currently use the coco coir and organic top soil which will get changed to coco coir and the bark i can get a picture of her the vet said it is just a little and it has not gotten any worse since i have got her 3 or 4 months ago, but i am afraid with winter coming and her not being outside as much it may. i did have her about a month or 2 prior to getting the other one and she hide when it was just her she goes outside and tries to hide she will just roam and eat eventually but it takes her quite a while.Hello and welcome! This is a lovely space you’ve created!
I know how contradictory and confusing information can be out there! Honestly you can’t go wrong using this place as your only source, you can always challenge answers to get to the nitty gritty of the information you need.
There is a few things of note I hope you don’t mind my mentioning on to hopefully get things on a better track, we all want everyone to have a positive tortoise keeping experience
First up the most pressing matter I’m afraid,
tortoise of any species should NEVER be housed in pairs under any circumstances, they’re incredibly territorial animals, behaviours that look cute to us really aren’t, following one another and sleeping huddled up is all bullying the the tortoise world, you’ll eventually see more extreme signs of aggression. Anyone who tells you pairs are fine, have no idea what they’re talking about. Unfortunately breeders sell pairs all too often.
Small groups are ok when there’s lots of land and the correct male to female ratio.
These two will need separating as soon as possible, the one constantly hiding is likely the one being bullied.
This enclosure, though beautiful, is a bit too small for one adult Herman, let alone two. Each tortoise ideally needs 8x4 minimum, though there are potentially some creative ways to provide the extra roaming room, whilst fitting the space you have better.
For substrate, if that’s hay mixed in ditch that, when adding the moisture needed to the substrate it will mould, if it isn’t, your substrate is too dry, this species aren’t grass eaters anyway.
Damp coco coir or orchid bark is best, some have a damp coir base with bark on top.
In terms of humidity, humidifiers aren’t recommended, a deep damp layer of substrate with overhead heating should create more than enough for adults of this species, perhaps we could get a photo of the one with pyramiding to see if a closed chamber style enclosure would be beneficial for the size she is.
For your lighting, can I ask what bulbs are kept in your double dome fixture? And for your uvb, are you using t5 bulbs? Is the strip light in the back just led for ambient lighting?
The ceramic won’t be very effective with the way it’s mounted, and I would suggest rely solely on the clamp, they have been known to fail and fall in, I’d hang securely with chain directly above.
Hopefully these might come in useful!
I made this thread based on the forums care information and added visual aids, it covers correct equipment(uvb, heating bulbs, lighting etc, double check all bulb types you’re using), correct levels, sizing(more on that later) appropriately maintaining the humidity, safe substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything, and the tortoise table link
Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors
Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...
This includes lots of inspiration for an adult set up both indoors and out! The indoor bit has some good ideas to tackle indoor space whilst still providing the needed roaming room! Check comments too, I’m always adding to it. I know the recommended adult size is intimidating to some, especially if you’ve been lead into thinking they’ll be fine in a smaller set up(very common) but tortoises long term health really does rely on lots of roaming room.
Enclosure inspiration
Howdy folks! Hope everyone is well! As you all know, I’m a big fan of making threads that cater more towards visual learners like myself, I’ve really been wanting to create a thread full of adult enclosure inspiration for a while now, I’ve managed to find some great references over time! I do...
Lastly, this one here is good to go over and keep on hand, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying
Common keeping errors
Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...
I hope they help! Sorry it’s so much to go over, I know this looks overwhelming! but please take all the time you need, and take all this step by step, we’re more than happy to break and information down! And happy to help step by step, welcome to the forum!
the strip light is T5 ho 10.0 and so is the double is a 10.0 uvb bulb also with a basking the back light is strictly a plant light and the heat bulb i will hang and use it only if the ambient temp drops down to low it really hasn't been on it is a just in case.
This forum is awesome thank you all very much for the information i have some homework and rearranging to do it appears
i will get a pic of her this evening
Sometimes it will take them a while to get use to there new surroundings. They will hopefully do better once you separate them. Can you put a barrier up in the middle of the enclosure to keep them separated for now? Maybe that would help until the other enclosure is built.
Littleredfootbigredheart
Well-Known Member
I’m so glad
Her being inside or outside shouldn’t effect her pyramiding at her age, it’s more about humidity when it comes to smoother growth, which is where a closed set up can come in, especially for winter if you aren’t brumating them
a topper can greatly help lock heat in, perhaps you’ll find some ideas in hereVisual inspiration
Hi guys! I’ve had some lovely messages complimenting me on my care sheets I made for all the visuals they include! That makes me so happy because as a visual learner myself, that was my goal🥰 I’ve recently had some requests for some more visual inspiration for set ups that can house babies/...
tortoiseforum.org
Incorrect bulbs like the compact uv bulbs, or spot bulbs can contribute to pyramiding too, they’re too harsh, they have quite a drying effect on the tortoises carapace.
Yeah I’d ditch the organic soil but rest sounds great.
With the double dome, I think I’m understanding that you have a compact screw in uv creating the ‘smaller basking area?’ Next to a second basking bulb?
Do you have two t5’s running there too? If you have two t5’s I’d ditch the compact uv bulb, in fact I’d probably ditch that altogether. They can each eventually have their own basking flood bulb and t5 uv, and you can give them each a ceramic in winter if needed. Thanks for the clarification on how the ceramic is hanging, no worries there.
How many months was it since you introduced the second tortoise to her would you say? It’s possible she was initially hiding from settling in, which can take a while with tortoises, then the addition of a cage mate continued the behaviour.
I can’t be certain. But hopefully that’s the case, and with time after the initial separation, she’ll be happier.
One thing that could be causing some potential stress is moving from one enclosure to another, going from a smaller space to a bigger one can be quite overwhelming. Once separated into their indoor enclosures, with winter coming anyway they’ll have plenty of time indoors to get used to their separate spaces, you’ll hopefully see a noticeable difference in that regard
The double dome fixture is a 10.0 uvb and a 100 watt basking bulb that is reaching 95 to 98. The strip light is a 10.0 uvb and the same lucky herb 100 watt bulb and reaches 95 to 100 bulb. Both basking bulbs are lucky herp 100 watt. The younger second one was introduced app 2 months ago. The humidity is running about 50 in most of the enclosure except under the basking areas those areas are only 23 or 24. I am changing the substrate tonight to just coco coir. And heading to hardware store for lumber tomorrow for the second enclosure. Can i still use the 4x6 i have and make the 2nd one larget which i will put the one in i am having isdues with. This is her below You thinking maybe I am causing some of this taking them outside?I’m so glad
Her being inside or outside shouldn’t effect her pyramiding at her age, it’s more about humidity when it comes to smoother growth, which is where a closed set up can come in, especially for winter if you aren’t brumating them
Visual inspiration
Hi guys! I’ve had some lovely messages complimenting me on my care sheets I made for all the visuals they include! That makes me so happy because as a visual learner myself, that was my goal🥰 I’ve recently had some requests for some more visual inspiration for set ups that can house babies/...
Incorrect bulbs like the compact uv bulbs, or spot bulbs can contribute to pyramiding too, they’re too harsh, they have quite a drying effect on the tortoises carapace.
Yeah I’d ditch the organic soil but rest sounds great.
With the double dome, I think I’m understanding that you have a compact screw in uv creating the ‘smaller basking area?’ Next to a second basking bulb?
Do you have two t5’s running there too? If you have two t5’s I’d ditch the compact uv bulb, in fact I’d probably ditch that altogether. They can each eventually have their own basking flood bulb and t5 uv, and you can give them each a ceramic in winter if needed. Thanks for the clarification on how the ceramic is hanging, no worries there.
How many months was it since you introduced the second tortoise to her would you say? It’s possible she was initially hiding from settling in, which can take a while with tortoises, then the addition of a cage mate continued the behaviour.
I can’t be certain. But hopefully that’s the case, and with time after the initial separation, she’ll be happier.
One thing that could be causing some potential stress is moving from one enclosure to another, going from a smaller space to a bigger one can be quite overwhelming. Once separated into their indoor enclosures, with winter coming anyway they’ll have plenty of time indoors to get used to their separate spaces, you’ll hopefully see a noticeable difference in that regard
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Welcome to the Forum!
A row of bricks taller than your torts can stand on their back feet might work to separate the enclosure for a while, or even some boards on edge to make a "fence". It has to be visually solid; if they can see through it they will try to get through it.
Happy tortoise-ing!
A row of bricks taller than your torts can stand on their back feet might work to separate the enclosure for a while, or even some boards on edge to make a "fence". It has to be visually solid; if they can see through it they will try to get through it.
Happy tortoise-ing!
The_Four_Toed_Edward
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the forum!
Littleredfootbigredheart
Well-Known Member
I would suggest having a look into upgrading your uvb, the recommended brands are Arcadia prot5 kit 12% or zoo med t5 10.0
And I’d check if your basking bulbs are spot or flood bulbs
Yeah if they have more room during summer, the 6x4 should work for one of them during winter.
Humidity wise, with coir make sure it’s damp all way through(not too wet, should more or less hold shape in fist) and firmly pack down by hand(if left loose n fluffy it can dry quicker)
The moving back n forth could possibly be contributing, some time to settle on their own should really help
Thank you very very much I appreciate it more than I can express. Everyone here has been very helpful and informative and for newbies like myself that just want happy thriving tortoises it means the world. You guys are awesomeI would suggest having a look into upgrading your uvb, the recommended brands are Arcadia prot5 kit 12% or zoo med t5 10.0
And I’d check if your basking bulbs are spot or flood bulbs
Yeah if they have more room during summer, the 6x4 should work for one of them during winter.
Humidity wise, with coir make sure it’s damp all way through(not too wet, should more or less hold shape in fist) and firmly pack down by hand(if left loose n fluffy it can dry quicker)
The moving back n forth could possibly be contributing, some time to settle on their own should really help
Thank you because a wire panel was not working well. Tried it last night
