Help please leg problems

[Christina.9]

Hello I am a new tortoise owner and worried about her back legs they look swollen after looking at other tortoise but I got her like this. Her diet mostly consists of Timothy hay and roman lettuce, she is about 2 and half years old. I also believe she had mbd because she has a very hard time holding herself up. I am sorry but would love some help and suggestions, I desperately need help thank you.

 

[COmtnLady]

Hold on, lets get some more knowledgeable than me to comment.

@Tom, @Yvonne, @wellington


.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I also believe she had mbd because she has a very hard time holding herself up.

MBD can sometimes be recognized visually. Could you send us a side profile picture of the shell?

 

[EppsDynasty]

First ... at 2 1/2 years old that tort is awful small. This is one of the reasons I HATE telling people to feed any Hay. It sounds and looks like this tort was under nourished and is showing signs of that.
Second ... We recently took in a Sulcata that was kept in a very small box for 5 years and had issues with lifting himself up. Not sure how your tort was kept 'Before' you but sounds like exercise might be an issue. I would stop feeding the hay and move to some Mazuri as the base food and to be fed everyday. Offer at least 2 other foods daily and switch those up offering different foods every other day or even everyday. My problem with ANY hay is they just do not eat enough, and suffer from malnourishment. I have seen dozens of Torts fed Hay that were too small and/or had physical issues.

I am NOT an expert just someone that wants the best for EVERY Tortoise there is. Hopefully some of the experts there are here will chime in and give some answers.

My plan would be make sure there is sufficient hydration, through soaks and soaking foods such as the Mazuri. Make a plan on what foods on what days and start to get a more varied diet and get rid of the hay. I would weigh the tort everyday after soaking (just in case there is a bowel movement) to track the weight as accurately as possible.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello! Aw poor thing, I can see he’s in rough shape and wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some MBD present. Diet could definitely do with improvements, I have some great links to pass on that will hopefully help this little one! They would greatly benefit being housed in a closed chamber for the next year or two, he’s very undersized by the looks, so definitely not ready for outdoor living. I’m not entirely sure what’s happening with his leg thoughhopefully the more well known folks will be along soon!

In the meantime hopefully you’ll find this housing thread useful, it covers correct equipment(uvb, heating bulbs, lighting etc), levels, importance of a closed chamber for younger tortoises(only way to maintain the humidity you need), appropriately maintaining the humidity, safe substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything and a really handy diet link to check out! If going with a greenhouse, the lower the ceiling height, whilst still allowing for recommended bulb height, the better!

Leopard/sulcata starter

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle an indoor starter set up for a leopard/sulcata until they’re bigger. Hopefully it helps give people some ideas!” I know it looks like a lot to go over, I like to make sure all bases are covered...

tortoiseforum.org

This includes some different closed chamber options, some run more efficiently than others but bear in mind the sizing for this species, I’d go as big as you can!

Visual inspiration

Hi guys! I’ve had some lovely messages complimenting me on my care sheets I made for all the visuals they include! That makes me so happy because as a visual learner myself, that was my goal🥰 I’ve recently had some requests for some more visual inspiration for set ups that can house babies/...

tortoiseforum.org

Lastly, most important, this one is also really good to familiarise yourself with and have on hand, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Really hope they help! Welcome to the forum!

 

[wellington]

@Yvonne G would be the best to advise on this
I'm thinking there is some organ problems possibly going on
Hard to say if it's just over weight. I would have a vet do some blood work.
Other than what Yvonne says,
I would also improve the diet, adding much more ingredients. I'm good with feeding hay, but that should not be the main ingredient at this age/size. Cactus pads, hibiscus leaf and flower, mulberry leaf, mazuri, orchard hay pellets soaked. Store greens, arugula, escarole, endive, riddichio.
Get him in a large enclosure and do hydrotherapy on him. Floating him in warm water in a large container like your tub and make him swim. Support him with a couple fingers under him if he just starts to sink. Do this daily for 30 minutes.

 

[Tom]

Hello I am a new tortoise owner and worried about her back legs they look swollen after looking at other tortoise but I got her like this. Her diet mostly consists of Timothy hay and roman lettuce, she is about 2 and half years old. I also believe she had mbd because she has a very hard time holding herself up. I am sorry but would love some help and suggestions, I desperately need help thank you.

This tortoise is in this condition because it has been cared for all wrong. I don't say this to be mean and make you feel bad. Most people do a lot of "research" into how to care for their animals, and unfortunately, almost all of the care info found for sulcatas is all wrong.

The solution then is to change the housing, heating, lighting, feeding, and hydration routine for this tortoise, and it will heal itself in time.

Hay is a great food for sulcatas. ADULT sulcatas. Hay is not for babies and smaller ones.

Please read these two threads and feel free to come back with all your questions:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Yvonne G]

The swelling you are seeing is edema, not fat. You need to make the changes to this baby's living arrangements as shown in the links Tom has provided for you. Hopefully you can turn his health problems around. It's not caused by any ONE thing. It's a combination of a lot of things - food, lack of exercise, living conditions, lighting, humidity - all these things work together to make a healthy tortoise.

 

[Christina.9]

This tortoise is in this condition because it has been cared for all wrong. I don't say this to be mean and make you feel bad. Most people do a lot of "research" into how to care for their animals, and unfortunately, almost all of the care info found for sulcatas is all wrong.

The solution then is to change the housing, heating, lighting, feeding, and hydration routine for this tortoise, and it will heal itself in time.

Hay is a great food for sulcatas. ADULT sulcatas. Hay is not for babies and smaller ones.

Please read these two threads and feel free to come back with all your questions:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you very much from reading I have seen many things that I am doing wrong and will fix right away. Thank you for your help.

 

[COmtnLady]

Thank you very much from reading I have seen many things that I am doing wrong and will fix right away. Thank you for your help.

It will help you save money if you run things past everyone here before you buy things to make sure its the right lighting or whatever.. I've gotten the wrong stuff and had to replace it, I think we all have.

Welcome to the Forum.

 

[Christina.9]

It will help you save money if you run things past everyone here before you buy things to make sure its the right lighting or whatever.. I've gotten the wrong stuff and had to replace it, I think we all have.

Welcome to the Forum.

Thank you that is a great idea and I will definitely do it. I will also at some point post her enclosure to make sure everything looks correct and safe.

 

[Christina.9]

First ... at 2 1/2 years old that tort is awful small. This is one of the reasons I HATE telling people to feed any Hay. It sounds and looks like this tort was under nourished and is showing signs of that.
Second ... We recently took in a Sulcata that was kept in a very small box for 5 years and had issues with lifting himself up. Not sure how your tort was kept 'Before' you but sounds like exercise might be an issue. I would stop feeding the hay and move to some Mazuri as the base food and to be fed everyday. Offer at least 2 other foods daily and switch those up offering different foods every other day or even everyday. My problem with ANY hay is they just do not eat enough, and suffer from malnourishment. I have seen dozens of Torts fed Hay that were too small and/or had physical issues.

I am NOT an expert just someone that wants the best for EVERY Tortoise there is. Hopefully some of the experts there are here will chime in and give some answers.

My plan would be make sure there is sufficient hydration, through soaks and soaking foods such as the Mazuri. Make a plan on what foods on what days and start to get a more varied diet and get rid of the hay. I would weigh the tort everyday after soaking (just in case there is a bowel movement) to track the weight as accurately as possible.

Do you perhaps know the size and weight they should? And also thank you for the advice she is being taken off hay.

 

[Christina.9]

MBD can sometimes be recognized visually. Could you send us a side profile picture of the shell?

Hello! Aw poor thing, I can see he’s in rough shape and wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some MBD present. Diet could definitely do with improvements, I have some great links to pass on that will hopefully help this little one! They would greatly benefit being housed in a closed chamber for the next year or two, he’s very undersized by the looks, so definitely not ready for outdoor living. I’m not entirely sure what’s happening with his leg thoughhopefully the more well known folks will be along soon!

In the meantime hopefully you’ll find this housing thread useful, it covers correct equipment(uvb, heating bulbs, lighting etc), levels, importance of a closed chamber for younger tortoises(only way to maintain the humidity you need), appropriately maintaining the humidity, safe substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything and a really handy diet link to check out! If going with a greenhouse, the lower the ceiling height, whilst still allowing for recommended bulb height, the better!

Leopard/sulcata starter

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle an indoor starter set up for a leopard/sulcata until they’re bigger. Hopefully it helps give people some ideas!” I know it looks like a lot to go over, I like to make sure all bases are covered...

tortoiseforum.org

This includes some different closed chamber options, some run more efficiently than others but bear in mind the sizing for this species, I’d go as big as you can!

Visual inspiration

Hi guys! I’ve had some lovely messages complimenting me on my care sheets I made for all the visuals they include! That makes me so happy because as a visual learner myself, that was my goal🥰 I’ve recently had some requests for some more visual inspiration for set ups that can house babies/...

tortoiseforum.org

Lastly, most important, this one is also really good to familiarise yourself with and have on hand, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Really hope they help! Welcome to the forum!

Thank you very much i am in the works of replacing her substrate someone told me the wrong information and now I am fixing it.

 

[TammyJ]

Thanks for coming here for help! You are getting the best for your tortoise. Good luck with the progress!

 

[EppsDynasty]

Do you perhaps know the size and weight they should? And also thank you for the advice she is being taken off hay.

At 2 1/2 years old she should be close to 20 pounds, only if taken care of correctly for the 2 1/2 years. We have a Sulcata (actually a couple of them) that were housed, fed and taken care of terribly and are only about 5 pounds, they should be over 50 pounds. I am telling you this to show you it's never too late to do things the right way. It is better to start with your care being right and go from there, weigh her and use that as your starting point. As a coincidence it's the end of 1 year and start of another, perfect for you to start and set goals, month to month and a goal for the entire year. 10 pounds for every year is the standard for Sulcata Torts, of course the first year she is not going to gain 10 pounds but at 10 years old a Sulcata should be 100 pounds. Set the goal of a pound per month and see how close you can get to achieving that, and you'll start to get an idea 'How she is growing'. Do not get frustrated but instead make changes to the overall care and monitor her progress.

Hopefully you can turn his health problems around. It's not caused by any ONE thing. It's a combination of a lot of things - food, lack of exercise, living conditions, lighting, humidity - all these things work together to make a healthy tortoise.

I need to say why I hate hay of any kind .... Yes Hay (Timothy, Orchard) is a GREAT food nutrition wise but in my experience torts just don't eat enough of it. They either get a stem poke in the mouth or don't like it or a variety of other things that lead to the tort not eating enough. Very experienced tort owners are better at 'Knowing' how much a Sulcata should be eating and give other foods if needed to increase the amount of food eaten. But most just do not realize the tort is not taking in enough nutrition and for months, years the tort is hungry all the time.

 

[Tom]

I need to say why I hate hay of any kind .... Yes Hay (Timothy, Orchard) is a GREAT food nutrition wise but in my experience torts just don't eat enough of it. They either get a stem poke in the mouth or don't like it or a variety of other things that lead to the tort not eating enough. Very experienced tort owners are better at 'Knowing' how much a Sulcata should be eating and give other foods if needed to increase the amount of food eaten. But most just do not realize the tort is not taking in enough nutrition and for months, years the tort is hungry all the time.

The only time I've ever seen that is when they are kept too cold. The cold is bad for them in general, and lack of appetite is just one aspect of the damage being done by cold temperatures. I think the cold is damaging their internal gut flora and fauna, and this is why they aren't eating enough, or getting enough nutrition from what they are eating. This is a housing problem. Not a hay problem. If you aren't feeding a diet of mostly hay to an adult sulcata, you're not doing it right. If you aren't keeping them 80+ degrees day and night, you also aren't doing it right.

Also, for those reading, Timothy is not a good way to go for hay eating tortoises because it is too stemmy. Orchard grass hay or Bermuda hay work much better for them.

 

[EppsDynasty]

The only time I've ever seen that is when they are kept too cold.

This is your experience, not mine.

If you aren't feeding a diet of mostly hay to an adult sulcata, you're not doing it right.

And this is your personal opinion, not mine.
Feeding hay is not the best way to raise a Sulcata, how about grazing naturally on Bermuda Grass?
NONE and I mean not 1 of our Sulcata Torts will eat any kind of Hay ... Why you ask, Because they eat a variety of other foods and as I said graze naturally. Feeding hay is a lazy way, instead we feel watering a grass to be grazed on is better than eating some bail of BS that is full of Chemicals. Ya ever seen a test of Hay for what's in it? Didn't think so. I have posted this before but will do it again .... We live near a HUGE Alfalfa operation that lots of Ranchers and Horse owners buy from .. ya know Local is better right. This farm has destroyed the water for all who live around it, making it unusable for Humans, their water bills tell them so. Would you want your Tortoise eating this .... NO. Feeding Hay is not the best, it is your opinion but not the only way to do things.

We as 'Tortoise People' should be promoting that every Sulcata pen should have some type of grass growing in it, not a dirt pen and fed 'Hay'.

 

[Tom]

This is your experience, not mine.

And this is your personal opinion, not mine.
Feeding hay is not the best way to raise a Sulcata, how about grazing naturally on Bermuda Grass?
NONE and I mean not 1 of our Sulcata Torts will eat any kind of Hay ... Why you ask, Because they eat a variety of other foods and as I said graze naturally. Feeding hay is a lazy way, instead we feel watering a grass to be grazed on is better than eating some bail of BS that is full of Chemicals. Ya ever seen a test of Hay for what's in it? Didn't think so. I have posted this before but will do it again .... We live near a HUGE Alfalfa operation that lots of Ranchers and Horse owners buy from .. ya know Local is better right. This farm has destroyed the water for all who live around it, making it unusable for Humans, their water bills tell them so. Would you want your Tortoise eating this .... NO. Feeding Hay is not the best, it is your opinion but not the only way to do things.

We as 'Tortoise People' should be promoting that every Sulcata pen should have some type of grass growing in it, not a dirt pen and fed 'Hay'.

Wow. What a lot of emotion...

Grazing natural is fine and dandy, but how many people have the acreage for that, and how many people can afford the water for that? How many people know how to manage a pasture like that? You might argue that people shouldn't keep a sulcata unless they can do all of that and have the resources to make it work, but that is not reality. There are millions of adult sulcatas in this country and around the world, and hay is the BEST way to keep them fed. They eat hay in the wild as part of their natural diet in the dry season for 8 or 9 months of every year. Grass is great. I feed as much as I can produce and find to my tortoises as possible each year, but hay makes up the difference nicely and it is good for them.

Alfalfa hay is not a suitable food for them in my opinion, and I don't know what's is going on in the alfalfa fields near you, but yes I have seen those reports. My local feed store keeps them on hand to verify the acceptable weed percentages and verify there are no toxic weeds mixed in. Some acquaintances bought a load of cheap hay from a disreputable seller, and three horses died, and several others got very sick. I buy from a reputable seller that has been feeding the animals here in my area for decades. I don't believe my bails are full of chemicals, and they have served me and my tortoises, and my camels, donkey, horses, goats, and sheep well for decades.

I've tried for years to grow grass for them. If the gophers and rabbits don't destroy it, the sulcatas do. Growing grass is easy in some areas of the country, and not-so-easy in others. I produced multiple generations of healthy babies and healthy adults using hay as a primary food source for hay eating species and your angry crusade against this practical valuable food source makes no sense to me.

What do you tell all the horse owners around you to feed their horses. Are they bad owners if they are using cubes, pellets and hay too? Should people only have horses if they can grow and maintain giant pastures year round? What about people who keep horses or sulcatas in areas that freeze? What are they supposed to feed their animals in winter? We have been feeding hay to herbivores for decades if not centuries. What is your deal man?