Hibernation and Sulcatas

[meatball]

I operate a turtle and tortoise rescue, have done for about 30 years or so. But along with all the sick, injured and found animals I take in and adopt out, I have my own collection of ten different species of tortoise and at least one of every sub specie of U.S. box turtle. I also have an in-the-ground pond with several female RES, a phrynops hillari, some Florida softshells and some rescued/injured pond turtles.

I became interested in turtles and tortoises about 40 years ago, and started a turtle club at that time. I've seen a lot of changes in tortoise husbandry in that time. It's important that you keep fresh and change with the times.

I've seen several posts by you that state emphatically that sulcata's don't hibernate. What if it wants to? I have a 16-year-old Sulcata that I bought last year. At that point, he was 120 lbs. I provided an insulated and heated room in my basement with food, water an full spectrum UV light. The room was about 20 x 20, I kept it at 80 degrees and I had spread several bales of timothy hay for him to hide. He broke out of that room three times to go and sleep next to the chimney base where it was m or like 55-60 degrees. He went dormant. For several weeks I put tempting food right in front of him. It always rotted. I provided water as well. He stayed right where he was and would hiss when I checked on him. It started in mid-October in southern Maine, the Portland area. He stayed that way till early May; when I opened up the cellarway so he could bask in the sun. He did that for a few days and then came up and out. He's been in his enclosure since, since save for a few nights I brought him inside. He's eating and moving just as he did last year. Other than losing a few pounds he doesn't look worse for the wear. Should I be PREVENTING him from hibernating? Thanks for any advice you can offer.

 

[TechnoCheese]

I've seen several posts by you that state emphatically that sulcata's don't hibernate. What if it wants to? I have a 16-year-old Sulcata that I bought last year. At that point, he was 120 lbs. I provided an insulated and heated room in my basement with food, water an full spectrum UV light. The room was about 20 x 20, I kept it at 80 degrees and I had spread several bales of timothy hay for him to hide. He broke out of that room three times to go and sleep next to the chimney base where it was m or like 55-60 degrees. He went dormant. For several weeks I put tempting food right in front of him. It always rotted. I provided water as well. He stayed right where he was and would hiss when I checked on him. It started in mid-October in southern Maine, the Portland area. He stayed that way till early May; when I opened up the cellarway so he could bask in the sun. He did that for a few days and then came up and out. He's been in his enclosure since, since save for a few nights I brought him inside. He's eating and moving just as he did last year. Other than losing a few pounds he doesn't look worse for the wear. Should I be PREVENTING him from hibernating? Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Sulcatas literally don’t have the ability to hibernate, so that is very concerning, and extremely dangerous for him to do that. Are you sure that the room was 80 degrees?
Could he have been sick?

 

[meatball]

Sulcatas literally don’t have the ability to hibernate, so that is very concerning, and extremely dangerous for him to do that. Are you sure that the room was 80 degrees?
Could he have been sick?

Positive. I'm reasonably well off, so I spared no expense. I insulated a room in my basement and hung three full spectrum lights that I had on timers. The tortoise had timothy-hay, alfalfa and small amounts of veggies. I had an alarm set when it got below 80. Never went off. I was very nervous about this all winter, but I literally could not keep him from hibernating. He broke out of the room twice and spent the rest of the winter hanging out by the chimney. I repeatedly made food and water available where he was. Never touched it. He looks great. Roaming around the yard eating grass, moving very quickly at times. And, he fights against me very strongly when I try to keep him in my yard by blocking his path. He's powerful. I'm 6 feet, and 250 pounds and I can stop him, but it takes some real effort. I got him spring 2017, and he was 15 years old and 120 pounds at that time.
He could be sick, but it doesn't seem it. His stool is well formed and he deficates regularly now that he's eating again.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Positive. I'm reasonably well off, so I spared no expense. I insulated a room in my basement and hung three full spectrum lights that I had on timers. The tortoise had timothy-hay, alfalfa and small amounts of veggies. I had an alarm set when it got below 80. Never went off. I was very nervous about this all winter, but I literally could not keep him from hibernating. He broke out of the room twice and spent the rest of the winter hanging out by the chimney. I repeatedly made food and water available where he was. Never touched it. He looks great. Roaming around the yard eating grass, moving very quickly at times. And, he fights against me very strongly when I try to keep him in my yard by blocking his path. He's powerful. I'm 6 feet, and 250 pounds and I can stop him, but it takes some real effort. I got him spring 2017, and he was 15 years old and 120 pounds at that time.
He could be sick, but it doesn't seem it. His stool is well formed and he deficates regularly now that he's eating again.

Seeing as sulcatas can’t hibernate, I’m not sure what that could have been. However, I don’t have much experience with adult sulcatas, so let’s see if another member could explain

 

[meatball]

Seeing as sulcatas can’t hibernate, I’m not sure what that could have been. However, I don’t have much experience with adult sulcatas, so let’s see if another member could explain

Thank you for helping.

 

[Melis]

Is it an unfinished basement? Like a concrete floor? Where was the temperature gauge? Can we see pics of where he was staying?

 

[orv]

Should your basement floor be concrete, I would sumise that it was very cold indeed. The air temperature there may have been 80 degrees, but not the floor where your tortoise was living.

 

[daniellenc]

Thank you for helping.

You’ll need heat mats on thermostats if the floor is concrete.

 

[wellington]

I had a leopard that did the same thing. Broke out of a heat green house in my basement. Would go into a cold dark area. When they get cold they slow down some cuz they are too cold. They don't have the ability to think "oh it's cold out there with no heat to heat up under, maybe I shouldn't go out there".
I blocked the area she was able to get thru and it was over.
Btw, did you have a basking spot of 95-100? They have to be able to bask under a higher temp.

 

[wellington]

Sulcata don't hibernate. If you want someone to say they do and that it's okay for them to hibernate you need to find another forum where the members don't have a clue!

 

[ascott]

I've seen several posts by you that state emphatically that sulcata's don't hibernate. What if it wants to? I have a 16-year-old Sulcata that I bought last year. At that point, he was 120 lbs. I provided an insulated and heated room in my basement with food, water an full spectrum UV light. The room was about 20 x 20, I kept it at 80 degrees and I had spread several bales of timothy hay for him to hide. He broke out of that room three times to go and sleep next to the chimney base where it was m or like 55-60 degrees. He went dormant. For several weeks I put tempting food right in front of him. It always rotted. I provided water as well. He stayed right where he was and would hiss when I checked on him. It started in mid-October in southern Maine, the Portland area. He stayed that way till early May; when I opened up the cellarway so he could bask in the sun. He did that for a few days and then came up and out. He's been in his enclosure since, since save for a few nights I brought him inside. He's eating and moving just as he did last year. Other than losing a few pounds he doesn't look worse for the wear. Should I be PREVENTING him from hibernating? Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Any tortoise can go "dormant" ...it does not mean it is a desirable situation...yes, a tortoise will retreat if their living situation is not good....and while doing so they may find themselves in a position where they cool and will slow way down waiting for desirable situation to come about...in doing this it may certainly appear to be choosing to hibernate...when in reality, they are simply trying to find a beneficial situation and when none found they will go into survival mode...can see how that can be interpreted as choosing to brumate/hibernate...but in all reality just trying to survive until beneficial situation occurs....

 

[JoesMum]

Tortoises cannot do anything if they’re not warm enough: eat, digest food or be active. That’s because they’re cold blooded and cannot make their own body heat to do so.

Being inactive is not the same as hibernation. Hibernation is where the animal is able to shut down its life systems to the bare minimum to survive and the animal can remain in this dormant state with its heart barely beating, incredibly slow breathing and barely detectable loss of body weight or hydration.

A tortoise that is merely too cold to be active without properly hibernating rapidly loses weight and becomes dehydrated. It is the cause of death of many species that can hibernate when temperatures are actually too warm for them to do so properly.

Sulcatas are one of the species that do not have the metabolic processes to enable hibernation. Therefore, cold induced inactivity is seriously bad news for them and, if prolonged, could kill.

Tortoises aren’t particularly bright. Over forty-odd years of tortoise keeping we have had to overrule choices made by ours on regular occasions.

Get the setup right and, particularly with Sulcatas, large and strong enough to contain them whilst giving them space to move about. Make sure the whole area is warm enough; for adults ambient temperature can drop at night, but not too far.

 

[CHill]

Seeing as sulcatas can’t hibernate, I’m not sure what that could have been. However, I don’t have much experience with adult sulcatas, so let’s see if another member could explain

Ok first Of all people who say Sulcata tortoises cannot hibernate are 100% WRONG!
Not only can they hibernate some in fact do! Please don’t give information unless you know all the facts. I work with an expert exotic animal vet and I have many Sulcata tortoise’s and in fact one of my Sulcata tortoise hibernates every entire year and we live in sunny California. And every year come spring he comes out very happy and healthy and goes back in every winter. We work with Sulcatas all day everyday and a big chunk of them hibernate and a lot slow down and some don’t hibernate at all. But stop Giving people false information that they cannot hibernate because that is a lie.

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Ok first Of all people who say Sulcata tortoises cannot hibernate are 100% WRONG!
Not only can they hibernate some in fact do! Please don’t give information unless you know all the facts. I work with an expert exotic animal vet and I have many Sulcata tortoise’s and in fact one of my Sulcata tortoise hibernates every entire year and we live in sunny California. And every year come spring he comes out very happy and healthy and goes back in every winter. We work with Sulcatas all day everyday and a big chunk of them hibernate and a lot slow down and some don’t hibernate at all. But stop Giving people false information that they cannot hibernate because that is a lie.

I'm curious....what are the winter temps while it hibernates? Is it afforded a heated box during the winter or does it simply choose not to use it?

 

[CHill]

I'm curious....what are the winter temps while it hibernates? Is it afforded a heated box during the winter or does it simply choose not to use it?

He likes to hibernate in my closet in the bedroom. We have given him so many options of heating pads heating lamps outside but he chooses to sleep inside. So he is very warm

 

[Tim Carlisle]

He likes to hibernate in my closet in the bedroom. We have given him so many options of heating pads heating lamps outside but he chooses to sleep inside. So he is very warm

Does it cover up with anything or does it bury its head in a corner? Trying to picture a sully stuck in a closet for months. Got a pic of it by chance? I'm just concerned that it's not lethargic due to low temps which can be confused with brumation which is further confused with hibernation.

 

[CHill]

Does it cover up with anything or does it bury its head in a corner? Trying to picture a sully stuck in a closet for months. Got a pic of it by chance? I'm just concerned that it's not lethargic due to low temps which can be confused with brumation which is further confused with hibernation.

We have Radiant heating in our floors so It’s always warm. When I take him into work the exotic vet always says he’s a happy healthy Sulcata. Some Sulcatas just choose to Hibernate and slow down. I have been working with Sulcatas for years... and yes not all of them hibernate But some do... and the ones that do live in sunny California with heat lamps etc. so it’s not just ones that life outdoors in frigid temperatures

 

[Tom]

Ok first Of all people who say Sulcata tortoises cannot hibernate are 100% WRONG!
Not only can they hibernate some in fact do! Please don’t give information unless you know all the facts. I work with an expert exotic animal vet and I have many Sulcata tortoise’s and in fact one of my Sulcata tortoise hibernates every entire year and we live in sunny California. And every year come spring he comes out very happy and healthy and goes back in every winter. We work with Sulcatas all day everyday and a big chunk of them hibernate and a lot slow down and some don’t hibernate at all. But stop Giving people false information that they cannot hibernate because that is a lie.

Before I blast you with both barrels for dispensing false info that can harm or kill tortoises, how old are you?

Because some of them are able to survive in incorrect cold conditions, does not mean it is okay or good for them. There is no cold period where they come from. Its hot every day, all year long. They have no means of understanding that temps are too cold, they aren't going to warm up in the sun the next day, and they should go sit near or on our little artificial heated areas.

I'm aware that some of them survive cold temps. Are you aware that many of them die because of what you are saying here? They do.

And working for a vet gives you no credibility whatsoever. Most vets don't have a clue. Ask your vet how many semesters there were on tortoise husbandry in vet school.

 

[Melis]

Before I blast you with both barrels for dispensing false info that can harm or kill tortoises, how old are you?

I was thinking the same... or wondering if this is another troll...

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

I was thinking the same... or wondering if this is another troll...

I’ll open the voting booth on this with my vote going for Melis. Next ? Plus I put a vote in for Tom.