Holy cow...read this...

Sa Ga

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HA! You know me SOOOOO well. The internet is great, but there is still no substitute for meeting people face to face.
So when are you hosting the TFO Face-to-Face reunion, Tom?

All joking aside, that would SO awesome! I wonder if a place could be rented for a day or two (like smaller little expos) and we could all meet up? There are a lot of us....I'd be willing to contribute to the cost of the rental!
 

Yvonne G

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Hi Guys...does any one here remember "Redford Nerd"...I think that was his name.
Well, he always said Never soak...if they want to drink or soak, they will. Of course he was a little off the wall
Nerd is still here. He doesn't post much but he's still here. It's redfootNERD.
 

willee638

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(This is copied from a sulcata listserv in Yahoogroups)


DO NOT SOAK YOUR TORTOISE DAILY!

(Even I learned something new today. I stand corrected. For all those I adviced about soaking, please read further)

‼Routinely soaking sulcata tortoises is wrong and unnatural. Daily soaking should only take place if there is a specific medical reason for doing so‼
The reason soaking is recommended by some, as I understand it, is to prevent pyramiding, an abnormal distortion of the tortoise’s carapace that is characterized by deformed, pyramid-shaped scutes.
The typical recommendation is that the tortoise soak in shallow warm water for 15 to 30 minutes anywhere from once a day to multiple times a day.
There is no scientific research to support the idea that soaking the plastron really does anything to stop pyramiding.
What does happen frequently is that the animal defecates in the water when soaking. If this happens several times a day or several times a week, you are interfering with the animal’s natural digestive transit time. The food is passing through the gut too quickly. Bad husbandry hinders the fermentation time needed to obtain the ultimate value of all the nutrients.
Keep a pan or saucer of water at the cool end of the enclosure; the tortoise will use it when it needs to drink or wants to soak.
‼Soaking is an unnatural, artificial solution to an unnatural, artificial problem caused by unnatural, artificial husbandry and habitat‼
In fact, this may well be a contributing factor to pyramiding. The scutes (keratin) absorb a lot of water and become very soft. The expansion and contraction of the keratin causes a lot of stress on the underlying bone. In an indoor enclosure, if the habitat temperature is high and the humidity is too low, the keratin can contract (dry out) too fast, causing the carapace bone structure to be drawn upward. The more dry the keratin becomes, the thicker it becomes, so up it goes, creating more stress to the carapace bone to follow. Get the temperature and humidity under control!
On a personal note, I believe now that it is more important to keep a proper humidity level than putting tortoise in water. We can regulate the humidity with a humidifier (olx, Lazada, I use Crane humidifiers) and a hygrometer.
Is this theory applies to Sulcatas & arid weather tortoises only? I have a red foot & she soaks herself at least once or twice daily being a tropical spices, my tortoise however does not defecate in the drinking dish but might have peed there. If they voluntarily soak themselves in water than it's probably be a natural behavior & tortoises might knows best...
 

Maggie3fan

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Is this theory applies to Sulcatas & arid weather tortoises only? I have a red foot & she soaks herself at least once or twice daily being a tropical spices, my tortoise however does not defecate in the drinking dish but might have peed there. If they voluntarily soak themselves in water than it's probably be a natural behavior & tortoises might knows best...

I was on a Sulcata only group and that was some of the misinformation I saw that was being passed as gospel..
 

terryo

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Hi Terryo! How the heck are ya'???

I was friends with him for a while, and he's one of the people who helped me figure out how to grow a smooth tortoise early on. We used to talk on the phone from time to time and he was the one that suggested carapace spraying because he'd been doing it with his RFs and liked the results. I tried it and it helped a lot with sulcatas and leopards. Then Carl came along and told me it wasn't Nerd's idea, so I had to stop crediting him with the idea, and only credit him with introducing the idea to me. Anyhow, at some point he started siding with the group-of-the-day that was attacking me, so I stopped talking to him.
I used to talk to him all the time too. When I was getting Pio from Tom C., I did so much research on Red foot care, but his was the care sheet I used to raise my Cherries. They turned out beautiful because of him and his advice.
 

Tom

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So when are you hosting the TFO Face-to-Face reunion, Tom?

All joking aside, that would SO awesome! I wonder if a place could be rented for a day or two (like smaller little expos) and we could all meet up? There are a lot of us....I'd be willing to contribute to the cost of the rental!
We have one annually in Mesa Arizona. Its called the TTPG conference. Every November. Anyone who likes turtles or tortoises should be going. I learn many new things every year, and meet tortoise people from all over the world.
 

Cathie G

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I don't remember Andy, but I do remember you and I very early on mixing it up once or twice when you and Tom would go at it. Lol.
I was always defending Tom. Like he needed help lol.
I think it's great though how everyone can disagree, even argue, yet can still remain civil and friends/friendly.
Do you realize how many people all you originals have helped and how far the care has come. Even with all that, there is still more better things being learned.
This truly is the best place with the best members to learn all the best stuff.
I so agree.
 

Sa Ga

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We have one annually in Mesa Arizona. Its called the TTPG conference. Every November. Anyone who likes turtles or tortoises should be going. I learn many new things every year, and meet tortoise people from all over the world.
Will you post when you know the details?

I still think it'd be super nifty to meet TFO'ers! Maybe somet year we can officially coordinate a side meetup when the TTPG is going on.
 

Tom

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Gijoux

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It's actually not a 'dust up'. I posted that so the experienced keepers could see what is happening on other tortoise pages, and groan like they did. We are all, mostly, experienced Sulcata keepers and keep our tortoises the same way...mostly. But I could get booted from that other tortoise page. Not that I haven't been in the past...lol
Count your blessings if you get booted.
 

dmilam

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Soaking sounds like a 'forced' thing the way that FB original poster worded their concern. I set tortoises in shallow water that they can walk out of, i do this near daily. Baby tortoises are a bit dumb, they can dehydrate sitting inches away from a shallow dish of water. They will sit and drink or walk out of the water as they see fit to. The water is enclosure warm, most shallow water trays are placed to be kept warm by the RHP in the enclosure. That in itself will encourage them to sit in the water.

I would venture a guess that the FB OP drown a few little guys and so found an emotional depth to hate soaking. As far as what happens in nature, that is alway the argument of people who don't understand deep time. I can assure you all that sometime in the history of sulcatas being sulcatas they sat in rain accumulation ponds with high frequency for long periods of time.

This is a very good point and something that really helped my greek tortoise. In July '19 adopted a seven month old tortoise that wouldn't go in its water plate. A few months ago, I changed from outside container soaks to placing fresh, warm, water in the plate and placing the tortoise in that plate. Now I routinely capture (on camera) the tortoise soaking itself. Its reached the point now that I just change the water and the tortoise goes in and out on its own.
 

willee638

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This is a very good point and something that really helped my greek tortoise. In July '19 adopted a seven month old tortoise that wouldn't go in its water plate. A few months ago, I changed from outside container soaks to placing fresh, warm, water in the plate and placing the tortoise in that plate. Now I routinely capture (on camera) the tortoise soaking itself. Its reached the point now that I just change the water and the tortoise goes in and out on its own.
My red foot gets a soaking more than once from me & I don't consider it forced, she use to soak herself & stays in the saucer for an hour at enclosure temperatures. But now early every morning I soak her for hydration in warm waters & mid-day also in the evenings so she doesn't need to do it herself anymore, my enclosure is wooden & without a lid so the substrates gets a little too dry in a few hours time & needs water sprays for moistures & humidity. My tort will walk out when she had enough...
 
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