Holy cow...read this...

Maggie3fan

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(This is copied from a sulcata listserv in Yahoogroups)


DO NOT SOAK YOUR TORTOISE DAILY!

(Even I learned something new today. I stand corrected. For all those I adviced about soaking, please read further)

‼Routinely soaking sulcata tortoises is wrong and unnatural. Daily soaking should only take place if there is a specific medical reason for doing so‼
The reason soaking is recommended by some, as I understand it, is to prevent pyramiding, an abnormal distortion of the tortoise’s carapace that is characterized by deformed, pyramid-shaped scutes.
The typical recommendation is that the tortoise soak in shallow warm water for 15 to 30 minutes anywhere from once a day to multiple times a day.
There is no scientific research to support the idea that soaking the plastron really does anything to stop pyramiding.
What does happen frequently is that the animal defecates in the water when soaking. If this happens several times a day or several times a week, you are interfering with the animal’s natural digestive transit time. The food is passing through the gut too quickly. Bad husbandry hinders the fermentation time needed to obtain the ultimate value of all the nutrients.
Keep a pan or saucer of water at the cool end of the enclosure; the tortoise will use it when it needs to drink or wants to soak.
‼Soaking is an unnatural, artificial solution to an unnatural, artificial problem caused by unnatural, artificial husbandry and habitat‼
In fact, this may well be a contributing factor to pyramiding. The scutes (keratin) absorb a lot of water and become very soft. The expansion and contraction of the keratin causes a lot of stress on the underlying bone. In an indoor enclosure, if the habitat temperature is high and the humidity is too low, the keratin can contract (dry out) too fast, causing the carapace bone structure to be drawn upward. The more dry the keratin becomes, the thicker it becomes, so up it goes, creating more stress to the carapace bone to follow. Get the temperature and humidity under control!
On a personal note, I believe now that it is more important to keep a proper humidity level than putting tortoise in water. We can regulate the humidity with a humidifier (olx, Lazada, I use Crane humidifiers) and a hygrometer.
 
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Maro2Bear

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Hhhhhm, can’t wait to see @Tom ’s @Yvonne G @Markw84 @Kapidolo Farms & others thoughts. Like @EllieMay asked, what’s the source of the posted info?

Best to stick with @tom’s proven research on 1000’s of soaked tortoises. The last time we saw such a scientific article, the reported “research” was conducted on two sets of 40 torts (or so).

I’ll stick with Tom’s soaking advice ?
 

TechnoCheese

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Hhhhhm, can’t wait to see @Tom ’s @Yvonne G @Markw84 @Kapidolo Farms & others thoughts. Like @EllieMay asked, what’s the source of the posted info?

Best to stick with @tom’s proven research on 1000’s of soaked tortoises. The last time we saw such a scientific article, the reported “research” was conducted on two sets of 40 torts (or so).

I’ll stick with Tom’s soaking advice ?
I was thinking the same. The article references that nothing about soaking daily has been proven to be beneficial, but does not link any sources itself.
 

Maggie3fan

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I am on a Sulcata forum, only it's nowhere near this forum...and when I contradict another post or give the kind of advice I give, I get 'where did you get your information' etc. I cannot believe they are so freakin behind the times and also rather hostile. They mostly just post pictures...here's little Johnny out of his plastic bin getting exercise on the kitchen floor...or some such crap...
 

Maro2Bear

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I am on a Sulcata forum, only it's nowhere near this forum...and when I contradict another post or give the kind of advice I give, I get 'where did you get your information' etc. I cannot believe they are so freakin behind the times and also rather hostile. They mostly just post pictures...here's little Johnny out of his plastic bin getting exercise on the kitchen floor...or some such crap...

It probably would have been good to have provided the original source in your first post. Maybe @Yvonne G can go back and add or put a few caveats in there like “Here is a good example of the kind of erroneous information that is floated about on other tortoise forums regarding the soaking of Sulcatas”.
 

Maggie3fan

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Yeah I know...but I kinda came across a little know it allish I think, so I'm trying to tone down. I am only there because I love Sulcata so much...but so many of them keep their torts like we did 30 years ago...
 

Tom

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This sounds like the usual FB hogwash. Its wrong, and there are thousand upon thousands of living tortoises all over the globe to disprove it. I've been reading that "gut transition time" non-sense since the early 90s. It sounds so legit and scary... except that its totally made up and wrong. Then there is the FACT that many of us have raised dozens, hundreds or thousands of babies with daily soaks for a decade now, and ALL of them thrive, grow and exude health and vigor.

Sorry. You can't just make statements when a preponderance of obvious evidence clearly refutes it.
 

Maggie3fan

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This sounds like the usual FB hogwash. Its wrong, and there are thousand upon thousands of living tortoises all over the globe to disprove it. I've been reading that "gut transition time" non-sense since the early 90s. It sounds so legit and scary... except that its totally made up and wrong. Then there is the FACT that many of us have raised dozens, hundreds or thousands of babies with daily soaks for a decade now, and ALL of them thrive, grow and exude health and vigor.

Sorry. You can't just make statements when a preponderance of obvious evidence clearly refutes it.

I think it's funny that there are 65k members on this forum and as near as I can tell, nobody else is there from here but me. Frankly, despite what it says on my profile I think I have been here since just several months after Yvonne, so I've never had to go to any other forums...and because I have Yvonne I never had to ask for advice from anywhere. I've done my own research of course, but why ask Alexa when I have Yvonne and this Forum??? So Tom, is it alright if I copy and paste your reply? I won't use your name until it's time to come down to posting more truth from me...
 

Tony the Tort42

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DO NOT SOAK YOUR TORTOISE DAILY!

(Even I learned something new today. I stand corrected. For all those I adviced about soaking, please read further)

‼Routinely soaking sulcata tortoises is wrong and unnatural. Daily soaking should only take place if there is a specific medical reason for doing so‼
The reason soaking is recommended by some, as I understand it, is to prevent pyramiding, an abnormal distortion of the tortoise’s carapace that is characterized by deformed, pyramid-shaped scutes.
The typical recommendation is that the tortoise soak in shallow warm water for 15 to 30 minutes anywhere from once a day to multiple times a day.
There is no scientific research to support the idea that soaking the plastron really does anything to stop pyramiding.
What does happen frequently is that the animal defecates in the water when soaking. If this happens several times a day or several times a week, you are interfering with the animal’s natural digestive transit time. The food is passing through the gut too quickly. Bad husbandry hinders the fermentation time needed to obtain the ultimate value of all the nutrients.
Keep a pan or saucer of water at the cool end of the enclosure; the tortoise will use it when it needs to drink or wants to soak.
‼Soaking is an unnatural, artificial solution to an unnatural, artificial problem caused by unnatural, artificial husbandry and habitat‼
In fact, this may well be a contributing factor to pyramiding. The scutes (keratin) absorb a lot of water and become very soft. The expansion and contraction of the keratin causes a lot of stress on the underlying bone. In an indoor enclosure, if the habitat temperature is high and the humidity is too low, the keratin can contract (dry out) too fast, causing the carapace bone structure to be drawn upward. The more dry the keratin becomes, the thicker it becomes, so up it goes, creating more stress to the carapace bone to follow. Get the temperature and humidity under control!
On a personal note, I believe now that it is more important to keep a proper humidity level than putting tortoise in water. We can regulate the humidity with a humidifier (olx, Lazada, I use Crane humidifiers) and a hygrometer.
Nor is there scientific evidence that it causes harm. I do not believe this. My tortoise does not over poop from soaking, and he soaks himself many days.
 

Blackdog1714

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Just imagine what would happen if someone said a momma koala bear should have a clean pouch for the joey to be born into- no momma poop no ability to handle the toxicity of eucalyptus. People say a lot of dumb things anonymously when in person they would probably not even make eye contact with you. With tech the ability to share info has allowed many good/proven ideas to be shared, but also allows wrong/bent views to almost be worshipped!
 

Maggie3fan

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Man, I love a good dust-up. I've got a tub of popcorn and plan to watch the fireworks here...

It's actually not a 'dust up'. I posted that so the experienced keepers could see what is happening on other tortoise pages, and groan like they did. We are all, mostly, experienced Sulcata keepers and keep our tortoises the same way...mostly. But I could get booted from that other tortoise page. Not that I haven't been in the past...lol
 

2wgasa

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Maggie3fan

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OMG! I am freaking on the losing end of this...I am so disagreed with...this is my last post and I betcha I'm banned...

They are NOT from a dry climate. They are not desert type tortoises, they are from the Savannas humid, wet and they live in long humid moist burrows with pee poop and dead things, moist. This info being passed around concerning dry Sulcata is 100% bad information and people who agree with it are mostly wrong. If I had permission to print links to show the research my tortoises and I have done and
I have years of head-starting several hundred Sulcata hatchlings to yearlings. I have 3 adult Sulcata. Anyhow, let's all be adults about this and share information so we can share in our knowledge and raise healthy Sulcata...
help...Those people are saying they ARE from a dry climate and
they soak themselves...The African Sulcata Tortoise page on FB...
 

Toddrickfl1

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OMG! I am freaking on the losing end of this...I am so disagreed with...this is my last post and I betcha I'm banned...

They are NOT from a dry climate. They are not desert type tortoises, they are from the Savannas humid, wet and they live in long humid moist burrows with pee poop and dead things, moist. This info being passed around concerning dry Sulcata is 100% bad information and people who agree with it are mostly wrong. If I had permission to print links to show the research my tortoises and I have done and
I have years of head-starting several hundred Sulcata hatchlings to yearlings. I have 3 adult Sulcata. Anyhow, let's all be adults about this and share information so we can share in our knowledge and raise healthy Sulcata...
help...Those people are saying they ARE from a dry climate and
they soak themselves...The African Sulcata Tortoise page on FB...
Don't bother banging your head on the wall with those people. Most of the Facebook turtle/tortoise groups are run by the same people and their cohorts. They give out all kinds of wrong info and anyone who disagrees with them gets banned from the group. That's why you'll notice most of the members are new keepers. For me it was saying Cypress mulch wasn't toxic that got me booted. Lol
 

ZEROPILOT

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This sounds like the usual FB hogwash. Its wrong, and there are thousand upon thousands of living tortoises all over the globe to disprove it. I've been reading that "gut transition time" non-sense since the early 90s. It sounds so legit and scary... except that its totally made up and wrong. Then there is the FACT that many of us have raised dozens, hundreds or thousands of babies with daily soaks for a decade now, and ALL of them thrive, grow and exude health and vigor.

Sorry. You can't just make statements when a preponderance of obvious evidence clearly refutes it.
...Depends on what news channel you watch
 

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