Shaif
Well-Known Member
Thank you for this wonderful discussion. I'm really enjoying it--I hope you are too.
I too am fascinated at the differences between our medicine and veterinary medicine. I propose that renal failure is similar across all species, and that the main difference is that we diagnose and treat it in humans, whereas it is missed or diagnosed so much later in animals. That may be why you are seeing the results of cachexia and chronic malnutrition in your practice. We intervene much earlier with humans, and administer tube feedings if needed. I really do think that the toxins in the blood will affect the brain of any live animal, but I can't prove this and don't know of any studies that have looked at it. Wouldn't it be amazing if we would somehow obtain arterial blood gas levels of our babies to actually know what is happening? Maybe we could pioneer the first baby tort dialysis machine.
But would you humor me and entertain the idea that it might not be pure renal failure that is the problem? I am so obsessed with getting my Zeus over this ailment, that I watch him for hours and try to figure him out. Zeus often looks a little off--for lack of a better comparison--I'll describe it like this: my Zeus sometimes looks like he is drunk. I have watched him at the food bowl trying to eat greens that are right in front of him. For some reason, he misses the food many more times than he gets it. I even started a thread asking the experts here if they thought he might have vision impairment or monocular vision. I entertained the theory that he may need glasses.
What I suspect but can't prove is that there is a neurological problem (at least in my tort's case). And while I know that Tom and all of the experts on the forum are correct--and proper care from day 1 is paramount, I wonder why all of the animals from the same clutch haven't had problems. I was an uneducated buyer and got him from an online pet store/tortoise mill. But I'm sure that store would have been shut down if all the babies were sick like mine. Why was mine the only one that was affected? Was there something genetic or inherent that was there from the beginning? Is the renal failure just the last part of multiorgan failure in a decline from neurological disease? Alternatively, could Zeus have the metabolic encephalopathy that we have discussed?
In my case, this baby was never "normal." He never self initiated feeding, and never moved much. The issue was really brought to light when I saw heathy babies and how active and hungry they are.
I'll keep soaking, hand feeding, and loving this guy as much as I can, but I have talked to a very very successful and well respected breeder with greater that 30 years experience who tells me that he does not soak his torts. He finds that it traumatizes them and he believes that a healthy tort will find the water in his enclosure when he needs it. Again--why doesn't mine do this? Even if there is renal failure, if he were neurologically intact, he would seek out nutrition and fluids.
Not that it matters, but I am the wife. My husband is the nephrologist.
It's a long way for all 4 of us to get to 100 grams. I hope to share the journey with you.
I too am fascinated at the differences between our medicine and veterinary medicine. I propose that renal failure is similar across all species, and that the main difference is that we diagnose and treat it in humans, whereas it is missed or diagnosed so much later in animals. That may be why you are seeing the results of cachexia and chronic malnutrition in your practice. We intervene much earlier with humans, and administer tube feedings if needed. I really do think that the toxins in the blood will affect the brain of any live animal, but I can't prove this and don't know of any studies that have looked at it. Wouldn't it be amazing if we would somehow obtain arterial blood gas levels of our babies to actually know what is happening? Maybe we could pioneer the first baby tort dialysis machine.
But would you humor me and entertain the idea that it might not be pure renal failure that is the problem? I am so obsessed with getting my Zeus over this ailment, that I watch him for hours and try to figure him out. Zeus often looks a little off--for lack of a better comparison--I'll describe it like this: my Zeus sometimes looks like he is drunk. I have watched him at the food bowl trying to eat greens that are right in front of him. For some reason, he misses the food many more times than he gets it. I even started a thread asking the experts here if they thought he might have vision impairment or monocular vision. I entertained the theory that he may need glasses.
What I suspect but can't prove is that there is a neurological problem (at least in my tort's case). And while I know that Tom and all of the experts on the forum are correct--and proper care from day 1 is paramount, I wonder why all of the animals from the same clutch haven't had problems. I was an uneducated buyer and got him from an online pet store/tortoise mill. But I'm sure that store would have been shut down if all the babies were sick like mine. Why was mine the only one that was affected? Was there something genetic or inherent that was there from the beginning? Is the renal failure just the last part of multiorgan failure in a decline from neurological disease? Alternatively, could Zeus have the metabolic encephalopathy that we have discussed?
In my case, this baby was never "normal." He never self initiated feeding, and never moved much. The issue was really brought to light when I saw heathy babies and how active and hungry they are.
I'll keep soaking, hand feeding, and loving this guy as much as I can, but I have talked to a very very successful and well respected breeder with greater that 30 years experience who tells me that he does not soak his torts. He finds that it traumatizes them and he believes that a healthy tort will find the water in his enclosure when he needs it. Again--why doesn't mine do this? Even if there is renal failure, if he were neurologically intact, he would seek out nutrition and fluids.
Not that it matters, but I am the wife. My husband is the nephrologist.
It's a long way for all 4 of us to get to 100 grams. I hope to share the journey with you.
