How warm to keep her at night?

[MaddOphelia]

Hi all,

I just brought home a beautiful ten-year-old golden Greek tortoise, who is presently asleep in her new enclosure. I spent several weeks setting up for her, and she came with a fairly extensive care sheet from the pet store, but I forgot to ask one question--how warm should I keep her at night? Since temps drop at night in the desert, I figure a desert tort shouldn't be kept at daytime temps all night? But I'm new, so I don't know. What nighttime temp is appropriate for a greek?

Thanks,
Lori

 

[Minority2]

Most pet stores and specialty reptile stores do not have sufficient knowledge of tortoises. This means their recommendations on the products you bought and care advice may not be as accurate as they claim.

An adult Greek tortoise does not require additional night time heating if overnight enclosure temperatures are above 65-60F. They will be fine as long as they're able to raise their temperatures back up in the morning.

Picture(s) of your enclosure and lighting fixtures will be most helpful to see if anything unsafe may require replacing.

1. What are the dimensions of the current enclosure you are housing your adult tortoise in?

Keep in mind that an adult Greek tortoise requires a minimum of at least an 8' x 4' ft enclosure.

2. What are your 4 temperature zones? Basking spot, warm side, cool side, and overnight low cool side?

You need relatively accurate temperature and humidity measuring devices for tortoise care. An infrared temperature gun and digital food/weather branded thermometer hygrometer reader with probe will achieve you far better than a cheap inaccurate digital/analog mini temperature gauge commonly sold by pet shops.

3. What is the humidity level of the enclosure?

4. Where was this tortoise purchased from?

5. What lighting fixtures are you currently using?

Please be as specific as possible.

Here are some useful threads you may want to read up on. Greek and Russians tortoises have very similar care:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[MaddOphelia]

Thanks for the links and questions! I'll answer your questions as best I can here:

1. What are the dimensions of the current enclosure you are housing your adult tortoise in?
She's in a 3' x 2' x 2' enclosure, but she only sleeps in it. I'm building her a 4' x 8' tortoise table for daytime. In spring and summer, she can go out in the back yard, where she'll have a space that's about 4' x 20'. I'm fencing off a special area for her, so I can be sure there are no poisonous plants, but lots of plants for grazing, and a good spot for basking as well as a shade box, etc.

2. What are your 4 temperature zones? Basking spot, warm side, cool side, and overnight low cool side?
Her basking spot is at about 95 degrees F, with the rest of the warm side being about 90. Cool side is 75. I set the thermostat for 65 on the cool side last night, but that was just a guess. What's the optimal overnight temp for warm side and cool side? My thermostat seems pretty accurate, so I'd like to take advantage of its accuracy to make the temps optimal to the degree.

3. What is the humidity level of the enclosure?
I've tried a few hygrometers in the past with my slugs and with a redfoot tortoise I was babysitting, but none seemed accurate enough for my taste. If you have a suggestion for a reliable brand of hygrometer, I'd love to know. For now, I'm just keeping the enclosure as clean and dry as possible.

4. Where was this tortoise purchased from?
I got her from a vivarium I've been going to since I was a kid. It's staffed by people who actually own reptiles, so they're more knowledgeable than the average pet store. My girl was surrendered by a family who couldn't keep her anymore, but seem to have taken excellent care of her. She has no pyramiding or other obvious signs of ill health, and she seems alert and energetic, which was what attracted me to her. I made her an appointment with a herp vet I've used in the past with other pets, just to get a wellcheck and make sure everything's normal.

5. What lighting fixtures are you currently using?
A ceramic heat bulb on a thermostat, and a UV lamp (not sure of the term for the fixture; it's a single tube 10.0 UVB bulb) on a timer.

I'll post pictures when I can figure out how. Is there an option for uploading from a local hard drive? I can only find an option for posting from a URL where the image is already hosted.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Greetings.

See if this helps you upload pictures from your storage device/drive:

 

[MaddOphelia]

Greetings.

See if this helps you upload pictures from your storage device/drive:

View attachment 255891

Aha! Thank you. I feel kinda silly for not having noticed that button before, I was only looking at the button bar at the top of the reply window...

 

[Minority2]

Thanks for the links and questions! I'll answer your questions as best I can here:

1. What are the dimensions of the current enclosure you are housing your adult tortoise in?
She's in a 3' x 2' x 2' enclosure, but she only sleeps in it. I'm building her a 4' x 8' tortoise table for daytime. In spring and summer, she can go out in the back yard, where she'll have a space that's about 4' x 20'. I'm fencing off a special area for her, so I can be sure there are no poisonous plants, but lots of plants for grazing, and a good spot for basking as well as a shade box, etc.

2. What are your 4 temperature zones? Basking spot, warm side, cool side, and overnight low cool side?
Her basking spot is at about 95 degrees F, with the rest of the warm side being about 90. Cool side is 75. I set the thermostat for 65 on the cool side last night, but that was just a guess. What's the optimal overnight temp for warm side and cool side? My thermostat seems pretty accurate, so I'd like to take advantage of its accuracy to make the temps optimal to the degree.

3. What is the humidity level of the enclosure?
I've tried a few hygrometers in the past with my slugs and with a redfoot tortoise I was babysitting, but none seemed accurate enough for my taste. If you have a suggestion for a reliable brand of hygrometer, I'd love to know. For now, I'm just keeping the enclosure as clean and dry as possible.

4. Where was this tortoise purchased from?
I got her from a vivarium I've been going to since I was a kid. It's staffed by people who actually own reptiles, so they're more knowledgeable than the average pet store. My girl was surrendered by a family who couldn't keep her anymore, but seem to have taken excellent care of her. She has no pyramiding or other obvious signs of ill health, and she seems alert and energetic, which was what attracted me to her. I made her an appointment with a herp vet I've used in the past with other pets, just to get a wellcheck and make sure everything's normal.

5. What lighting fixtures are you currently using?
A ceramic heat bulb on a thermostat, and a UV lamp (not sure of the term for the fixture; it's a single tube 10.0 UVB bulb) on a timer.

I'll post pictures when I can figure out how. Is there an option for uploading from a local hard drive? I can only find an option for posting from a URL where the image is already hosted.

2. Overnight temperatures should not drop below 65-60F. Adult Greek tortoises can handle temperatures of 50F but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's something they want. Some members that have compiled field studies of their own have claimed that higher night temperatures such as 65-70F may be good for Mediterranean tortoises because they showed less signs of sluggishness and inactivity during the mornings. I've tried it myself and can confirm that tortoises with 65F and above overnight temperatures do behave a lot more differently in the morning than those kept at 50-55F.

3. Ambient weather is a good brand I would recommend. I personally prefer their wireless probes over other brands. Aim to achieve a minimum humidity level of 50-70%. 70-80% will also not harm adult Greek tortoises. You may even possibly find less poop and pee in their hides by doing so.

4. Most pet shops do not give the most updated advice. Their heart may be in the right place, however, many of them rarely attempt to keep up with the latest information on tortoise care. Outdated unsafe equipment and poor recommendations are just a sign of people clinging unto decades old information, information that has been proven to not be safe for tortoises. Some veterinarians also fall under this problem. Vets that offer to complete unnecessary procedures to a healthy tortoise and or give advice that sounds awfully outdated is a strong red flag.

5. Can you please include a picture, link, and or description of the UV(B) tube? Is this in fact a linear florescent bulb and not a compact florescent bulb?

 

[MaddOphelia]

2. Overnight temperatures should not drop below 65-60F. Adult Greek tortoises can handle temperatures of 50F but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's something they want. Some members that have compiled field studies of their own have claimed that higher night temperatures such as 65-70F may be good for Mediterranean tortoises because they showed less signs of sluggishness and inactivity during the mornings. I've tried it myself and can confirm that tortoises with 65F and above overnight temperatures do behave a lot more differently in the morning than those kept at 50-55F.

3. Ambient weather is a good brand I would recommend. I personally prefer their wireless probes over other brands. Aim to achieve a minimum humidity level of 50-70%. 70-80% will also not harm adult Greek tortoises. You may even possibly find less poop and pee in their hides by doing so.

4. Most pet shops do not give the most updated advice. Their heart may be in the right place, however, many of them rarely attempt to keep up with the latest information on tortoise care. Outdated unsafe equipment and poor recommendations are just a sign of people clinging unto decades old information, information that has been proven to not be safe for tortoises. Some veterinarians also fall under this problem. Vets that offer to complete unnecessary procedures to a healthy tortoise and or give advice that sounds awfully outdated is a strong red flag.

5. Can you please include a picture, link, and or description of the UV(B) tube? Is this in fact a linear florescent bulb and not a compact florescent bulb?

Your argument for nighttime temps of 65-70 makes sense to me, so I set her thermostat accordingly. I don't know what she was like before I got her, but she did wake up perky and hungry today! So, so far so good on the nighttime temps.

Yes, the UVB tube is linear. It's this one: https://zoomed.com/t8-reptisun-10-0-uvb/ I tried to attach a photo of mine in its fixture, but I get a non-specific error message when I try to upload a file, and I haven't been able to figure out why yet.

One more question: the Russian tortoise care sheet says to keep a dish of water in the enclosure, but my understanding was that Greeks don't need one. Do you have an opinion one way or the other?

Thanks again!

 

[Minority2]

Your argument for nighttime temps of 65-70 makes sense to me, so I set her thermostat accordingly. I don't know what she was like before I got her, but she did wake up perky and hungry today! So, so far so good on the nighttime temps.

Yes, the UVB tube is linear. It's this one: https://zoomed.com/t8-reptisun-10-0-uvb/ I tried to attach a photo of mine in its fixture, but I get a non-specific error message when I try to upload a file, and I haven't been able to figure out why yet.

One more question: the Russian tortoise care sheet says to keep a dish of water in the enclosure, but my understanding was that Greeks don't need one. Do you have an opinion one way or the other?

Thanks again!

I belong to the school of thought that believes all tortoises should have access to water at all times. I personally don't believe the water content in a tortoise's diet is enough to properly sustain them. Just because a tortoise in their natural habitat can survive such conditions doesn't necessarily mean we as owners shouldn't attempt to improve their conditions using modern or updated methods. I still give my sexually mature adult tortoises at least 3 soakings per week.

While tortoise do posses the ability to store water in their bladder, which can be reused at a later date. This process however, I believe, may cause more harm than good. Some wild tortoises in the wild will form bladder stones. The reasons of urates binding together in the wild may be because these tortoises were not able to find water for a long period of time. These stones without a doubt are painfully excruciating. My hope and belief is that the regular soakings and offering of water will instinctively cause/force the tortoise to frequently purge their bladders so that there would not be enough urates left in their bladder to bind at any given time. This reasons is also why I don't agree with people that only soaks their adult tortoises once per week, if any.

This is largely just a matter of one person's opinion, taken and interpreted from the research they've done. I could definitely be wrong.

 

[no one]

I agree with Minority2!! Even adult Tortoises should soak three times a week. And have clean water available all the time. Large enough to fit in. I have seen hermann's soak themselves in their water dish.

 

[MaddOphelia]

I belong to the school of thought that believes all tortoises should have access to water at all times. I personally don't believe the water content in a tortoise's diet is enough to properly sustain them. Just because a tortoise in their natural habitat can survive such conditions doesn't necessarily mean we as owners shouldn't attempt to improve their conditions using modern or updated methods. I still give my sexually mature adult tortoises at least 3 soakings per week.

While tortoise do posses the ability to store water in their bladder, which can be reused at a later date. This process however, I believe, may cause more harm than good. Some wild tortoises in the wild will form bladder stones. The reasons of urates binding together in the wild may be because these tortoises were not able to find water for a long period of time. These stones without a doubt are painfully excruciating. My hope and belief is that the regular soakings and offering of water will instinctively cause/force the tortoise to frequently purge their bladders so that there would not be enough urates left in their bladder to bind at any given time. This reasons is also why I don't agree with people that only soaks their adult tortoises once per week, if any.

This is largely just a matter of one person's opinion, taken and interpreted from the research they've done. I could definitely be wrong.

I didn't know wild tortoises got bladder stones, that's very interesting. It would tend to lend credence to the practice of providing captive tortoises with water. I can't think of a good reason not to, so I'll pick her up a water dish.

Do you know of a good book on general physiology and behavior of Mediterranean tortoises? I'd like to fill in the gaps in my knowledge. Plus they're just so interesting to learn about!

 

[MaddOphelia]

I agree with Minority2!! Even adult Tortoises should soak three times a week. And have clean water available all the time. Large enough to fit in. I have seen hermann's soak themselves in their water dish.

I didn't know Hermanns would do that! I'll offer my Greek a dish large enough to soak in and see if she uses it.