So we had a bit of excitement with our Russian Frankie while hubby was gone. We attribute her recovery to her good vet Dr. Burgess here in Portland area, quick reaction, and antibiotics unfortunately. However the fact that she seemed to kind of languish with me while as soon as my husband returned from the trip he was on at the time she did an about face mad me wonder if she is really imprinted on him. What do you think...are your tortoises imprinted on you?
Imprinting???
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I don't know if imprinted is the word for mine - but they definitely know my voice and come charging out just in case I have food for them. (They are better at coming to me than my cats who usually choose to ignore me.) I like to think they love me, but I know they just think of me as "that lady who brings us food." 
I have not seen imprinting. I have seen lots of classical conditioning. Pavlov's dogs, basically. Mine do seem to recognize me, but it seems to be more of a food association thing.
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Simply put-No. Associating me (or any human) with food-Yes.
Coming by voice command-NO. Associating me (or any human with food-Yes.
Sorry, but after years of keeping several hundred tortoises I have not found a single one that responds to a voice command or "misses" me when I'm gone.
They absoultey do respond to visual and scent keys. When they see me (or any human) they think they're going to be fed. If I dangle my hand in front of them long enough they will scurry over, smell it and often try to bite it. Whether I have the scent of food on my hand or not!
It's been stated time and time again that while they probably can detect low frequency noise such as a "thud" or stomp on the floor, they cannot detect sound as we do. Their sound detection parameter is in the 200-800 hertz range. Even at that there is some question as to how much sound vibration they actually detect with their ears since their actual ears are essentially covered with an exterior membrane. Or if that sound is transferred as vibration through their feet and plastrons. Even if they could hear, it's doubtful that they process sound the same as we do. If you're tortoise is named Fido, it doesn't know it's name is Fido!
The notion that they come running when they're called is based on the human need for recognition.
I'll apologize for being the buzzkill now.
Coming by voice command-NO. Associating me (or any human with food-Yes.
Sorry, but after years of keeping several hundred tortoises I have not found a single one that responds to a voice command or "misses" me when I'm gone.
They absoultey do respond to visual and scent keys. When they see me (or any human) they think they're going to be fed. If I dangle my hand in front of them long enough they will scurry over, smell it and often try to bite it. Whether I have the scent of food on my hand or not!
It's been stated time and time again that while they probably can detect low frequency noise such as a "thud" or stomp on the floor, they cannot detect sound as we do. Their sound detection parameter is in the 200-800 hertz range. Even at that there is some question as to how much sound vibration they actually detect with their ears since their actual ears are essentially covered with an exterior membrane. Or if that sound is transferred as vibration through their feet and plastrons. Even if they could hear, it's doubtful that they process sound the same as we do. If you're tortoise is named Fido, it doesn't know it's name is Fido!
The notion that they come running when they're called is based on the human need for recognition.
I'll apologize for being the buzzkill now.
I'm sure in "reality" everything GBTortoise said is true-- in my "heart" ,I would like to think the personalization I have given to each of my animals is "real". I talk to my fox terrier 24/7 now that kids are gone---she "knows" my most heartfelt thoughts--- she also knows when there is a groundhog in the back yard or when a commercial with an animal[any animal] will be on the screen. Mortimer does "react" to sound and vibrations. If she is just hanging out, she will turn her head if I speak-- and yes she does come running when she sees food-- but all I have to do is snap a stalk of chicory and she will get up and move to the sound. And when my husband comes into the room and speaks--she will hide in her shell 'til he's gone.
Not to disagree with you GB - I'm sure you know all about their hearing abilities ... etc. I really don't. All I know is that when I come out to their pens and say something, they start to poke their heads out and head towards me. Now I'm not saying I call their name and they individually come - but it's definitely my voice they react to because they don't do the same thing when my husband is out there (because he has never fed them.) I can't explian why they are reacting to my voice, but they definitely do.
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Nope, I don't know all about their hearing abilities. But I do know something about their abilities not to hear based on research, observation and experimentation.
Here are three simple experiments that a local college veterinary student did for a project quite a few years back. While I suggested some of the tests to her, my only part in it was providing a few tortoises and as "prop".
1) Put your tortoise in a large box, open on the top and and front. Kneel or sit directly behind the box, so that the tortoise cannot see you or any other human. Talk, call it's name, say whatever you want to. But do not stomp the ground or make any action that would cause vibration. Eventually what will happen is the tortoise will leave the box and start wandering off, regardless of attempts to "call it back".
Her conclusion: no response to voice recognition or normal human sound level.
We then place the tortoise back in the box and put up a temporary barrier in front of the box. She (the student) had me stand about 10 feet in front of the box and stand in silence. She then lifted the barrier and the tortoise almost immediately came to me. We did the same at farther differences with the same results.
Her conclusion: Sight recognition probably based on source of food.
2) She then had myself and nine students kneel on the ground in a larger circle. In the center of the circle was a single tortoise with a box over it. She removed the box and stepped out of the circle. After a moment the tortoise began looking around, immediately went to a person and sniffed, then to another and sniffed and wandered around within the circle checking a few other people out before finally attempting to wedge itself between someone's legs.
Her conclusion: No recognition based on site. Smell recognition unlikely.
Three of the members in the circle were then each given a dandelion plant and flower. The tortoise again in the center, box over it. The box was removed, the tortoise looked around, went to a person and then suddenly saw a person nearby with a dandelion and immediately made a bee-line to the dandelion!
She then did the same experiment with three tortoises. Eventually every one of them went to the food. None of them came to me (except a couple of times to sniff around in passing).
Her conclusion: Same as above and reaction to food.
Obviously, this was not a deeply scientific research undertaking with lots of pie charts and graphs, just a simple experiment in animal response and behavior which is all she was looking for. But the results are undeniable and I think would probably happen the same way each time.
I still observe my tortoises constantly for a sign of acknowledgement beyond the basic learned response to me (sight recognition based on food source). I have yet to see them display what I could call "showing loyalty without an expected reward".
There are some very simple explanations on how your tortoises "recognize" you when you go out to their pens: vibration & sight recognition based on food source (loyalty based on expected reward).
While we all like to equate our animals with human emotion and actions few species have the true capacity. Human related interraction with most species of animals is a response based on repeatative training and or reward of some type, whether it be food, affection (petting or belly rub) or some other show of loyalty on our part the to animal.
My dogs each come when I call them because they learned at a very young age that they're going to be fed or petted. Along with that I'm guessing that it if probably in part, instinctual for a dog to do so because primordially they were pack animals and my family is their pack. And I know nothing about that- but I watch Cesaer Milan!
On the other hand, my tortoises would wander away and never look back, no matter how much I tried to call them!
That's why my dogs run free on my property and my tortoises are kept in enclosures that they can't get out of.
Nope, I don't know all about tortoise hearing ability, but I know what I've seen and experienced.
Here are three simple experiments that a local college veterinary student did for a project quite a few years back. While I suggested some of the tests to her, my only part in it was providing a few tortoises and as "prop".
1) Put your tortoise in a large box, open on the top and and front. Kneel or sit directly behind the box, so that the tortoise cannot see you or any other human. Talk, call it's name, say whatever you want to. But do not stomp the ground or make any action that would cause vibration. Eventually what will happen is the tortoise will leave the box and start wandering off, regardless of attempts to "call it back".
Her conclusion: no response to voice recognition or normal human sound level.
We then place the tortoise back in the box and put up a temporary barrier in front of the box. She (the student) had me stand about 10 feet in front of the box and stand in silence. She then lifted the barrier and the tortoise almost immediately came to me. We did the same at farther differences with the same results.
Her conclusion: Sight recognition probably based on source of food.
2) She then had myself and nine students kneel on the ground in a larger circle. In the center of the circle was a single tortoise with a box over it. She removed the box and stepped out of the circle. After a moment the tortoise began looking around, immediately went to a person and sniffed, then to another and sniffed and wandered around within the circle checking a few other people out before finally attempting to wedge itself between someone's legs.
Her conclusion: No recognition based on site. Smell recognition unlikely.
Three of the members in the circle were then each given a dandelion plant and flower. The tortoise again in the center, box over it. The box was removed, the tortoise looked around, went to a person and then suddenly saw a person nearby with a dandelion and immediately made a bee-line to the dandelion!
She then did the same experiment with three tortoises. Eventually every one of them went to the food. None of them came to me (except a couple of times to sniff around in passing).
Her conclusion: Same as above and reaction to food.
Obviously, this was not a deeply scientific research undertaking with lots of pie charts and graphs, just a simple experiment in animal response and behavior which is all she was looking for. But the results are undeniable and I think would probably happen the same way each time.
I still observe my tortoises constantly for a sign of acknowledgement beyond the basic learned response to me (sight recognition based on food source). I have yet to see them display what I could call "showing loyalty without an expected reward".
There are some very simple explanations on how your tortoises "recognize" you when you go out to their pens: vibration & sight recognition based on food source (loyalty based on expected reward).
While we all like to equate our animals with human emotion and actions few species have the true capacity. Human related interraction with most species of animals is a response based on repeatative training and or reward of some type, whether it be food, affection (petting or belly rub) or some other show of loyalty on our part the to animal.
My dogs each come when I call them because they learned at a very young age that they're going to be fed or petted. Along with that I'm guessing that it if probably in part, instinctual for a dog to do so because primordially they were pack animals and my family is their pack. And I know nothing about that- but I watch Cesaer Milan!
On the other hand, my tortoises would wander away and never look back, no matter how much I tried to call them!
That's why my dogs run free on my property and my tortoises are kept in enclosures that they can't get out of.
Nope, I don't know all about tortoise hearing ability, but I know what I've seen and experienced.
All thanks for replies and interesting. I still think there is a reward association not imprinting then between Frankie and husband. I think the answer is he equals food reward and I don't. It could have upset her routine a bit with him gone but she probably will be happy as long as she is healthy and fed....no matter who does it (but really he is better at it and now owes me after being gone
We ought to set up an experiment to test the tortoises hearing. The flaw in the first experiment above is that it was not a conditioned response. In other words the tortoise had no positive association with the sounds it was hearing, and so no reason to react to them or go to them. Think Pavlov's dogs. Ring the bell, feed the dog. Repeat 100 times. THEN, ring the bell and see how the dog reacts. I'll try this with my sulcatas. I've got remote buzzers that we use to call dogs, cats, rats, really anything. I'll try to train mine to go to the buzzer with a food association and see if it can be done. The test will be to have someone hide the buzzer somewhere out of sight and see if they run to it when it starts buzzing. This will be easier in the middle of summer when there is not so much "free" food around. Right now they can just graze all day because of the weeds growing in their pen from all the rain. I'll have to wait til the weeds dry up and let them get a little hungry.
Very interesting GB! So you think it may be they react to the vibrations I make as I come near? Do you think they can differentiate between my sounds (vibrations) compared to my husbands? (They never come out for him and he can't find them at night when it's time for them to go into their secure hides. I, on the other hand, never have trouble with this.)
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Roachman-You're right, there was no positive associaton in the first experiment in terms of expectation of reward. Pavlov's experiment is a classic example of association/reward. But the first experiment I participated in with the student was to purely find out if the tortoise could recognize a sound that should have been familiar-my voice, without having the visual association. In other words, could a tortoise hear (at least at the level of the human voice).
And yes, despite me not believing that my tortoises can hear I talk to them all the time, it's just human nature to talk to animals! I don't whisper sweet nothings or call them pooky-wooky like some (barf), but I do talk to them, not that I expect them to talk back. My kids have named some of them too, but I couldn't tell you what the names are. Admittedly, some have acquired obvious nicknames over the years like "old girl", stumpy and my favorite ODB. I won't explain that one, but if you know rap music you know ODB!
Kimber_lee-I'm not so interesting (just ask my wife), I just ramble a lot! Be thankful that my fingers get tired of typing after awhile!
I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble. People have a right believe what they want to. I'm just stating what I've seen and experienced. No one has to believe me if they don't want to and I'm okay with that.
And yes, despite me not believing that my tortoises can hear I talk to them all the time, it's just human nature to talk to animals! I don't whisper sweet nothings or call them pooky-wooky like some (barf), but I do talk to them, not that I expect them to talk back. My kids have named some of them too, but I couldn't tell you what the names are. Admittedly, some have acquired obvious nicknames over the years like "old girl", stumpy and my favorite ODB. I won't explain that one, but if you know rap music you know ODB!
Kimber_lee-I'm not so interesting (just ask my wife), I just ramble a lot! Be thankful that my fingers get tired of typing after awhile!
I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble. People have a right believe what they want to. I'm just stating what I've seen and experienced. No one has to believe me if they don't want to and I'm okay with that.
I think the way you explain your observations and experiences in such a thoughtful and "kind" manner, so refreshing. It's the friendly banter and info that keeps me checking this site each day. Life would be very boring if we didn't learn something every day we're here.
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I love how my RT comes running any time I stop in front of the bins.
Lately he has really been quilting me into giving in. Which I am sure only strengths the response.
And I call his name and ask him questions about hows hes doing all the time, like someone said, human nature I guess.
He will ignore me if hes basking with his eyes shut until I tap on the edge of the bin(vibrations no doubt) then he will twist his head around to look at me, then almost trip over his own feet turning around in a hurry.
On a related note, he ALWAYS seems really hungry, he free feeds for at least 20 min a day, am I under feeding?
Lately he has really been quilting me into giving in. Which I am sure only strengths the response.
And I call his name and ask him questions about hows hes doing all the time, like someone said, human nature I guess.
He will ignore me if hes basking with his eyes shut until I tap on the edge of the bin(vibrations no doubt) then he will twist his head around to look at me, then almost trip over his own feet turning around in a hurry.
On a related note, he ALWAYS seems really hungry, he free feeds for at least 20 min a day, am I under feeding?
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