Indian Star morphs/mutations

[jasrooij]

Hi,
I was wondering if there are any known mutations or morphs in the Indian Stars.
From other tortoises like Sulcatas or Red Foots i know there are several mutations like Albino or Hypo.
I can't find anything about mutations in Indian Stars.

 

[RandyTortoise]

Hi,
I was wondering if there are any known mutations or morphs in the Indian Stars.
From other tortoises like Sulcatas or Red Foots i know there are several mutations like Albino or Hypo.
I can't find anything about mutations in Indian Stars.

I think there is none that I am aware of. The issue and unanswered questions is the hybridization of Burmese stars, Indian Stars and Sri Lankan stars. Are they genetically distinct from each other and what is the impact on each as the pet trade with uneducated or non-caring breeders have some to the ones in the market. I am sure it is impossible to prove you are buying a pure strain of of anything at this point, especially as people have been breeding for money as their main motivation

 

[zovick]

Hi,
I was wondering if there are any known mutations or morphs in the Indian Stars.
From other tortoises like Sulcatas or Red Foots i know there are several mutations like Albino or Hypo.
I can't find anything about mutations in Indian Stars.

About 30 years ago (in the 1990's) I was offered an albino Indian Star Tortoise baby for $20,000 USD. I did not buy it and never heard about it again.

Don't have any idea if it survived or not, but since no "het albinos" have ever been offered, I would assume it did not live to reproductive age.

 

[thompsono]

I think there is none that I am aware of. The issue and unanswered questions is the hybridization of Burmese stars, Indian Stars and Sri Lankan stars. Are they genetically distinct from each other and what is the impact on each as the pet trade with uneducated or non-caring breeders have some to the ones in the market. I am sure it is impossible to prove you are buying a pure strain of of anything at this point, especially as people have been breeding for money as their main motivation

I have wondered about this a lot as well. From what people have told me, the India vs Sri Lanka is already muddied by the pet trade etc. But I see characteristics in some Burma photos that make me wonder as well. In fact I have seen some radiated tortoise that seem to have asian tortoise characteristics too

 

[zovick]

I have wondered about this a lot as well. From what people have told me, the India vs Sri Lanka is already muddied by the pet trade etc. But I see characteristics in some Burma photos that make me wonder as well. In fact I have seen some radiated tortoise that seem to have asian tortoise characteristics too

There are some people who actually want to breed hybrid tortoises. I am not one of them and do not condone it.

 

[zovick]

I think there is none that I am aware of. The issue and unanswered questions is the hybridization of Burmese stars, Indian Stars and Sri Lankan stars. Are they genetically distinct from each other and what is the impact on each as the pet trade with uneducated or non-caring breeders have some to the ones in the market. I am sure it is impossible to prove you are buying a pure strain of of anything at this point, especially as people have been breeding for money as their main motivation

To clarify a couple of points, I will sat that I had all three types of Star Tortoises in my collection back in the late 1990's. All of them were originated directly from their countries of origin, so their genetics was pure. I had them DNA tested and learned that the Indian and Sri Lankan Stars are virtually the same as far as their DNA is concerned. They are simply different geographic races of the same species.

The Burmese Stars are a totally different species according to their DNA.

I will also add that my bloodlines of Sri Lankan Stars were collected by a friend of mine in Sri Lanka and brought to this country. I took great care to keep my Sri Lankan Star gene pool totally pure and unadulterated, and there are still some truly pure Sri Lankan Star bloodlines available in the US today, but you must be careful when buying if you wish to obtain them.

 

[RandyTortoise]

To clarify a couple of points, I will sat that I had all three types of Star Tortoises in my collection back in the late 1990's. All of them were originated directly from their countries of origin, so their genetics was pure. I had them DNA tested and learned that the Indian and Sri Lankan Stars are virtually the same as far as their DNA is concerned. They are simply different geographic races of the same species.

The Burmese Stars are a totally different species according to their DNA.

I will also add that my bloodlines of Sri Lankan Stars were collected by a friend of mine in Sri Lanka and brought to this country. I took great care to keep my Sri Lankan Star gene pool totally pure and unadulterated, and there are still some truly pure Sri Lankan Star bloodlines available in the US today, but you must be careful when buying if you wish to obtain them.

Great point! I guess you are the expert! I have always thought the Indian and Sri Lankan may be the same identical species. Geographically it makes a lot of sense.

 

[thompsono]

To clarify a couple of points, I will sat that I had all three types of Star Tortoises in my collection back in the late 1990's. All of them were originated directly from their countries of origin, so their genetics was pure. I had them DNA tested and learned that the Indian and Sri Lankan Stars are virtually the same as far as their DNA is concerned. They are simply different geographic races of the same species.

The Burmese Stars are a totally different species according to their DNA.

I will also add that my bloodlines of Sri Lankan Stars were collected by a friend of mine in Sri Lanka and brought to this country. I took great care to keep my Sri Lankan Star gene pool totally pure and unadulterated, and there are still some truly pure Sri Lankan Star bloodlines available in the US today, but you must be careful when buying if you wish to obtain them.

Yes - this is why my Burma stars came from Tom!

 

[zovick]

Yes - this is why my Burma stars came from Tom!

I don't know of any hybrids between Burmese and Indian/Sri Lankan Stars, do you?

My point was that you can buy "mutt" Stars being sold as Sri Lankan Stars if you are not careful. I did not mean to suggest that there are any hybrid Burmese Stars.

 

[jasrooij]

Thanks for the replies. In my opinion it is very hard to determine whether Indian Stars are pure nowadays. However i think the difference between Indians and Sri Lankas is only geograhically. I’ve always seen the Platynota as a totally different species.

The reason i was asking about morphs in Indian Stars is this. I now have my first offspring from these species. After 2 years of unfertile eggs we managed to hatch a clutch of 5. Very happy with this! However one of the little ones is kind of hypomelanistic and looks complete different from the others.
No info about such traits can be found online. That is why i was asking on these forums.

 

[zovick]

Thanks for the replies. In my opinion it is very hard to determine whether Indian Stars are pure nowadays. However i think the difference between Indians and Sri Lankas is only geograhically. I’ve always seen the Platynota as a totally different species.

The reason i was asking about morphs in Indian Stars is this. I now have my first offspring from these species. After 2 years of unfertile eggs we managed to hatch a clutch of 5. Very happy with this! However one of the little ones is kind of hypomelanistic and looks complete different from the others.
No info about such traits can be found online. That is why i was asking on these forums.

Can you post a photo of the young Star? I have seen some hatchlings which started out looking a bit light, but ultimately ended up looking pretty normal.

 

[Tom]

Hi,
I was wondering if there are any known mutations or morphs in the Indian Stars.
From other tortoises like Sulcatas or Red Foots i know there are several mutations like Albino or Hypo.
I can't find anything about mutations in Indian Stars.

I know of none of these with Indians or Sri Lankans, but there is a high yellow variety of the Burmese star. I have two of these. They are clearly different than the normal ones. I've also seen pictures of distinctly differently marked Burmese stars from somewhere over seas. They were platynota, but differently marked. I'm guessing they are from a locality that we do not have over here.

 

[jasrooij]

This is a picture of it next to a sibling and a picture of the whole clutch of 5.

 

[zovick]

This is a picture of it next to a sibling and a picture of the whole clutch of 5.

View attachment 392191View attachment 392192

Yes, I see what you mean. It definitely looks different from its clutch-mates. It will be interesting (to me at least) to see if it turns any darker as it gets older as the ones I hatched did. I don't believe mine were quite as light as yours, though.

 

[thompsono]

Wow - very interesting! @jasrooij I hope you can update us every so often on how they develop!

 

[Tom]

This is a picture of it next to a sibling and a picture of the whole clutch of 5.

View attachment 392191View attachment 392192

I've had a few Burmese stars hatch out like that. They turn to normal coloration over time.

 

[turtlesteve]

I agree with Tom and I have also seen this phenomenon. Some are born with missing pigment that seems to correct itself in a few weeks to months.

 

[zovick]

I agree with Tom and I have also seen this phenomenon. Some are born with missing pigment that seems to correct itself in a few weeks to months.

This is what I have seen also. It will be surprising to me if the one pictured by the OP stays light for more than 6-8 months or so.

 

[jasrooij]

We will see how it will develop. I will keep you updated every now and then.

 

[jasrooij]

Update
In the second clutch of the group was another “hypo”. So that makes 2 out of 9 eggs. Let’s see what the future brings!