New MEP coming soon!!!

[Fireflyfarm]

Greetings again to everyone, after months of waiting, we are finally getting our first MEP! It's in southern Cali right now and will soon be here in south Louisiana. Obviously it's not acclimated to our colder temps at all. Right now our plan is to keep it in our greenhouse on cold nights...below 50 degrees Fahrenheit, and outside in a 10'x10' enclosure when temps are more moderate. Our redfoots live in our GH all winter and love it.
My question is, what do I need to put in the MEP's habitat to keep it happy on those cold days and nights when it can't be outdoors. Obviously hides and plants, but I'm thinking of heat sources. We maintain temps of 60 for a low and we have exhaust fans that turn on when temps creep above about 85. So it's pretty tropical. High humidity. Regular mistings and such. What I think is ideal. But I'm concerned about cold cloudy days. It will be 60 all day and night. Does he need a heat lamp or mat on those days, or can he comfortably and healthily stay at 60 for a couple days.

It's about two and a half years old and a little over 5". Any comments would be helpful. Thanks!

Severn

 

[Fireflyfarm]

Here it is! Safe and sound in our greenhouse. Meet Petraea.

 

[Yvonne G]

Because my special interest is the Manouria species, I'm wondering who you bought your tortoise from?

 

[diamondbp]

I love his eyes. Very neat color to them. Good luck!

 

[Jacqui]

Looking good! Did you get all your questions answered? I see you asked them awhile back.

 

[Benjamin]

Offer a small wattage ceramic heat emitter and see if the turtle uses it at all. I keep some MEE in my greenhouse. I do not provide them with any supplemental heat. I had for a time but soon noticed that they never used it. About two weeks ago we had extremely cold weather and they experienced two nights of 32F temps. Turtles are just fine.

 

[Fireflyfarm]

We're watching him right now. The GH temp has been 85 during the day since we got it. I know that's plenty warm. This is just temporary until the temps moderate a bit here. It's been unusually cold for the last few weeks.
Then it'll go outside where it belongs. I
got it from the TortForum for sale section. It was an individual that got it a year ago from Spectrum Reptiles (I think that's the name).

---

As an aside, I find his plastron soft. I don't have that on my redfoots. Is this a big problem or will it be corrected with some sun and calcium? He's eating well (although we haven't seen a bm since he got here Wednesday), but he's not very active. Kinda lays around. Not in his hide, just out in the open. Perhaps he's basking...? He'll eat out of our hands, so there is interaction, but it's a quiet tort right now. I'm hoping he's just acclimating to his new home. Thoughts?

 

[mikeh]

We're watching him right now. The GH temp has been 85 during the day since we got it. I know that's plenty warm. This is just temporary until the temps moderate a bit here. It's been unusually cold for the last few weeks.
Then it'll go outside where it belongs. I
got it from the TortForum for sale section. It was an individual that got it a year ago from Spectrum Reptiles (I think that's the name).

---

As an aside, I find his plastron soft. I don't have that on my redfoots. Is this a big problem or will it be corrected with some sun and calcium? He's eating well (although we haven't seen a bm since he got here Wednesday), but he's not very active. Kinda lays around. Not in his hide, just out in the open. Perhaps he's basking...? He'll eat out of our hands, so there is interaction, but it's a quiet tort right now. I'm hoping he's just acclimating to his new home. Thoughts?

---

Congrats on your Manouria, nice looking one too. While I am no expert, I will share what I know from and observations of mine.

Flexible plastron is nothing to worry about. Manouria have thin bones and fenestra between the bones on the shell does not fill in like in other tortoises. In very young Manouria its quite normal for the plastron to "give", it feels springy like leather balloon (NOT soft like sponge). It will even temporarily dent if resting on small rock or uneven surface, belly also literally bloats after feeding. It will harden as they get bigger.

Young once are known not to be overly mobile. My little leopard covers more ground in a day then two yearlings MEE cover in a week combined.
They do remain alert all day but are more of observers, studying their surrounding (bugs fascinate them), lay in the warm water dish for hours or spend time cleaning their front legs and shell rather then move about. Unlike other species that aimlessly walk around, these guys simply need a good reason to. One thing that motivates them to be very active is hunger. Hungry, they will endlessly forage around looking for food and are extra alert at this time. After feeding and full, well they have no reason to move about and find a comfortable spot for the day. I sometimes will skip a day or two of feeding to get them active. Two days with no food may seem too much, but these two are well over 5" and 400+ grams at just one year old and their enclosure has plenty of weeds for them to eat, they just need to work for it. They learn quickly the feeding patterns which contributes to them being "lazy" and they will rather hold out then forage, until hunger takes over. They love oyster mushrooms, I hide them around the enclosure and let them work for it or let then chase after a nightcrawler.

Id try low intensity heat source previously suggested. 85F daytime is fine, dont be afraid of high 80s with plenty of shade. Some bask, some dont, the two here do bask every day in warm ambient air WITHOUT direct heat source, and show no signs of distress even in low 90s. They actually seek out warmer parts of the enclosure.

A caution. These guys are excellent climbers. They will climb walls if they want to get to the other side and manage to find traction. Their needle like claws provide plenty of it. I once left a towel hanging over the edge of a two foot high vertical edge. One climbed right up the towel. Luckily it happen indoors. I was scratching my head how, until I seen it with my eyes.

Many captive raised Manouria develop a deformity "coning" of the spurs on the front legs. It is unclear why. I suspect lack of moisture/wetness, lack of protein or some other nutrition deficiency. So far, your guy does not seem to exhibit this deformity. I would mist his shell and front feet few times a day.

Moist top soil would be my preferred choice of substrate with some rocks to climb over and more vegetation to break up the light and open space.

I have read it takes few years for these guys to show their true personality. It is suppose to be a rewarding experience.

 

[Fireflyfarm]

Thanks for your reply Mikeh! Very helpful. That puts our mind at ease a bit. It is very alert...just laid back. Much different than our redfoots. They were all into everything from day one! How about a bm? Nothing that we can find since Wednesday. I just checked this morning. He's eating though. Loves the kale (he'll eat out of your hand!) mushrooms, squash, romaine lettuce, a taste of mango and some elephant ear from his habitat. He scarfed down a worm I found yesterday so he's eating all he wants. But no bm. Our redfoots have a bm daily to every other day. MEP's may be a bit different. Any thoughts?

 

[mikeh]

I wouldn't worry about lack of bm yet. They do have bm just like other torts daily/semi daily when fed properly. He is on the smaller side for his age, maybe he wasn't fed daily and things just need to catch up. They also tend to fully empty their intestines when handled a lot or stressed, perhaps this happened when he was being shipped.

I noticed black kale gives them diarrhea, not sure about regular kale. Variety of elephants ears are supposedly big part of their natural diet. Broad and narrow leaf plantain is another great weed to feed. Occasional yam, bamboo sprout, fresh figs, papaya, cantaloupe are very appreciated threats from time to time.

Along with your previous concern I wouldnt go overboard with calcium supplementing. In much of manouria range the soil supposedly lacks calcium, perhaps that is why they have thin bones and incomplete filling of fenestra. I crush pure limestone rock into tiny pieces/ powder and place it on flat rock. From time to time they munch on it. The small pieces are also great in keeping the beek worn.

 

[Fireflyfarm]

Here it is taking down a dwarf elephant ear. He loves these things!

 

[mikeh]

I need to get some of those to add to variety.

Watching them tear down plants never gets old, especially with those crazy eyes. They truly look like little dinosaurs.
Here is one of mine destroying plantain weeds.

 

[Fireflyfarm]

They do look like little dinosaurs. Like you said, it's the eyes. I'll have some small growing Alocasia and colocasia ready in about 6 weeks. PM me with your address and I'll send you some. We own a small nursery that grows tort friendly plants.

Severn

 

[juli11]

They look pretty cool. I love their eyes! I want 2 or 3.. But they are to expensive at the moment.. But they are one of my dream tortoise..

 

[mikeh]

Any update on the bm? Thanks for your kind offer, I sent you a pm.

 

[Fireflyfarm]

He had one yesterday. He's settling in well. Eating, hanging out in his water dish, and active in the late afternoon primarily. I don't see him moving much in the morning, but hell, I'm not a morning person either.
We had an overcast day today and the greenhouse temps still reached 80. That seemed warm enough without a CHE. Do you agree? When there is sun the temperature gets up to 90-ish, then the exhaust fans come on and keep it from getting any hotter. We maintain 60 as the low. We have a CHE on the redfoots, but I'm holding off on the MEP unless anyone feels it's absolutely necessary. I figure they have cool rainy days in their natural range as well. Probably natural for them.

 

[mikeh]

Re: RE: New MEP coming soon!!!

He had one yesterday. He's settling in well. Eating, hanging out in his water dish, and active in the late afternoon primarily. I don't see him moving much in the morning, but hell, I'm not a morning person either.
We had an overcast day today and the greenhouse temps still reached 80. That seemed warm enough without a CHE. Do you agree? When there is sun the temperature gets up to 90-ish, then the exhaust fans come on and keep it from getting any hotter. We maintain 60 as the low. We have a CHE on the redfoots, but I'm holding off on the MEP unless anyone feels it's absolutely necessary. I figure they have cool rainy days in their natural range as well. Probably natural for them.

90F is fine as long as there is plenty of shade. 60 for night at his age is ok as long as the tort can bask or warm up in the am to 80 and above.

Mine are the same way, rarely any movement before noon, they just sit there, stare and observe the surroundings like they never seen them before. Preferred food gets them moving.