New to Sulcatas and I think mine is sick =(

[srod]

Hi everyone. I really hate that my first post is about a likely sick sulcata but I felt it necessary.
Saturday I went to a reptile show in Baton Rouge. My boyfriend and I currently own 5 aquatic turtles, so we went to the show with intention of browsing and buying supplies. I have wanted a sulcata for some time but have always put off buying because of the high prices at local pet stores. While browsing the show we find a vendor selling 2month old sulcatas at a decent price. Right off the back my boyfriend buys it for me. Since bringing it home the sulcata has not eaten, nor opened its eyes, and I have not seen any signs of it urinating or pooping. It roams around its living area from time to time (with its eyes closed). But all it seems to do is sleep. I have been reading the forums and understand the likelihood of hatchling failure syndrome. I am also familiar with RI since I have aquatic turtles. At the present time I am very worried for the little guy/gal and I am a bit angry at myself for not asking the vendor/breeder all the questions I should of asked.

Upon reading I found that coil uvb lamps were harmful to sulcatas eyes. Yesterday I ordered an mvb lamp and have turned off the current uvb lamp. I have tried feeding it various things, even fruit, no dice. I have been soaking it 2x a day in warm water 15-20min. Today I soaked it in baby carrot food mixed with water for 30min. It responded, opened its eyes, became alert, wiggled, and even tried to climb out of the dish. I put it back in its area, it roamed around, found a spot under the heat lamp and went back to sleep.

Current setup:
20gal aquarium (I know isn't ideal, but would be temporary)
Cypress mulch (moist)
Humid hide hut
Heat lamp
uvb lamp (now off)
100 degrees basking side / 80-85 cool side
Food ~ Bermuda grass, romaine, some commercial (Even tried banana & strawberry)

Before making a trip to the vet, is there anything else I can do?

 

[jtrux]

Sounds like you are doing everything you can and unfortunately it doesnt appear that the prognosis is good.

Right off the bat id say it probably has something to do with how it was hatched and raised from the breeder. Theres a likely chance that it has some sort of gut impaction from the medium used for incubation.

Secondly, im sure the breeder has many to choose from so why would you pick the one that was lethargic and had its eyes closed? Sulcatas are very responsive amd personable so when you examined it before purchase it would have been wide eyed amd bushy tailed so to speak.

Now as far as what your doing to help the little guy id say your setup is perfect. Many people will scoff at the 20 gallon and I normally would agree...if your tortoise was healthy BUT since it is sickly the aquarium is the best way to provide consistent temps and humidity. The only thing you didnt mention was what temps you provide at night. 80 should be the minimum at night and I still like having a warmer spot even at night, lets say 85-90.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi srod, and welcome to the Forum!

Continue the baby food soaks for about 3 days. Change your food offerings to dark, leafy greens...turnip greens, dandelion greens, endive, escarole even spring mix.

Baby tortoises are prey and hide/sleep a lot. Do you have a hiding place for the baby?

 

[srod]

@jtrux thanks for the reply. at the time we picked it out, it did not show signs of being lethargic, its eyes were opened and it was wandering around its area nibbling on romaine lettuce. The ride home was about 50min in which it appeared to have fallen asleep or have closed its eyes. I assumed it was cold. As soon as we got home, I placed it in its new living area with all of the above mentioned setup - it kept sleeping, or at least i thought it was. I do not currently have a night heat lamp and since the temperature has dropped a bit here I felt it best to leave the heat lamp on over night to stay warm versus turning it off and having it get down under 70 degrees.

@emysemys Today I will try some spring mix. Even though fruit is bad for sulcatas i assumed it would react to it but it didn't even seem to care. It does have a hiding place.

This morning i checked on him/her. I noticed a bubble coming out of its nose. First and only time ive seen it. I have not heard any wheezing or strange sounds when breathing so I am not sure if it could be an RI at this point? I did the carrot soak again this AM and it perked up ALOT. Bright eyed, bushy tailed and wiggling. We stared at each other for a good bit. I put it back in its living area and again it found a spot under the heat lamp and went to sleep.

I called a herp vet this morning and made an appointment for tomorrow.

*sigh*

 

[LuckysGirl007]

I think the coil bulb could have been causing some of the eye problem. I have heard it takes a few days for their eyes to repair themselves after the bulb is removed. Hopefully he/she gets better for you soon!

 

[Tom]

Sounds like you have multiple problems occurring now, compounded by the coil bulb, possibly low temps and the "sun" shining 24/7.

I do not wish to berate you or make you feel bad, but you do need to know what went wrong and others reading might benefit from the knowledge too. Here is my best guess based on the posts above: Sounds like he was okay with the vendor. No way to really know now. You did your best to set him up right, but you probably got some bad advice. Once you got him home, it sounds like you are not sure what your four temps were (this is another common mistake), and it is likely they were not warm enough. Then the coil bulb probably hurt his eyes. He might be blinded now. Could be temporary and it will heal. Time will tell. Then in an effort to keep the temps up, you are leaving the heat bulb on all night and messing with his sleep cycles. They need it dark at night.

What to do now? Keep doing the baby food soaks and leave food out for him. Get the right heating and lighting equipment in there, so you can maintain the right temps, but still have it dark at night. Hopefully, he will pull through and be okay.

I know this isn't fun, but understand that you are not alone. Many people have had to learn the hard way as you are now. Just do your best, learn from it, and share what you learn with others.

 

[CourtneyAndCarl]

From the sounds of it the baby food soaks are helping. Since he is a baby it is pretty normal for him to sleep all the time. My little guy is active for maybe two hours a day when he's confined indoors, the rest of the time he's napping under his basking light or buried under his hide.

 

[shellysmom]

If he has bubbles coming out of his nose, though, it's good you're taking him to a vet. He might need antibiotics.

 

[lori12386]

Goodluck with the baby. I have a sick little guy myself im trying to get better. Calling the vet in the morning.

 

[srod]

Tom, thank you for your post. Unfortunately I have received alot of BADDDD advice. I did not take most of it. Except the UVB Coil bulb. Big mistake, but i realized fast that it was wrong. The baby was only subjected to it for a day. Though, I know that is probably enough time to cause damage, I am trying to rectify the situation as quickly as possible. Today marks a little over 72 hours of having the baby sulcata here. I read your informational threads and I want to thank you for creating those. I went out and purchased a CHE and have set that up for him tonight. The temp is at 85 for night.

Update on my observations of him this afternoon are as follows: When i got home from work there was evidence that he had been moving around his living area. He was squinting his eyes open when I took a closer look at him. I prepared his baby carrot soak and he was in there for about 10 minutes when his eyes were wide open! I looked away for a second to moisten the substrate and put some fresh food and when I looked back there he was trying to figure out a way out of his little soaking bowl. I made him sit there for another 5 minutes then dried him off. His eyes were wide open and his squirming was non stop while in my hands. I replaced him in his area near his food. He took a bite of the romaine lettuce. First time I had seen him even acknowledge food. Yes it was only 1 bite but its progress (I think?). He then proceeded to the warmer side and fell asleep again.

Appointment is still on for tomorrow. So I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks to all those you commented.
@Lori goodluck as well!

 

[jtrux]

Sounds promising!

 

[Tom]

Good luck. Often their eyes will feel better after a few days and they will get back to normal. Be very careful with what the vet tells you, since we sort of know what the problem is and what caused it. They may want to prescribe some antibiotic injections if they suspect a respiratory infection. Just be aware that those can sometimes do more harm than good, especially in a tiny hatchling. Often the vet handbook also tells them to give vitamin A injections, or something similar. This is often a death sentence for them. Happens all the time. Just happened to a member a few days ago.

I'm not saying all vets are bad, or that you should not go, but I am saying be aware that many of them don't know much about tortoises, and that can be dangerous.

 

[schmodygirl]

Please keep us updated. I hope all works out well.

 

[Laura]

did you get the vendors info?
keep him warm... soaked... good luck..

 

[srod]

Thank you again Tom. I'm going to "scope out" the Vet during the visit. Without giving much detail, I plan on telling the symptoms I have seen without actually saying what I know (based on what I've read on this forum) about what the prognosis might be. The herp vet I am taking the baby too was listed on the herpvetconnection website. I found that site suggested on various threads here. I am hoping I made a good choice but regardless what the Vet says, ultimately it is up to me on what further actions to take. I will keep you posted.

Thanks schmodygirl! I do too

@Laura, I do have the vendors info, but before I make an angry phone call, I'm waiting to see the turn out of this. Alot of the advice the vendor gave me was WRONG. Some right. You know how that story goes though, everyone has their own way of raising their pets, children, etc.

 

[srod]

Update. So what are the odds that on the way to the vet someone perks up and decides to be totally active and alert. Not to mention, while waiting to see the vet that same someone decided it wanted to eat. And eat it did. Ate a good bit of romaine. I was so happy to see that. I proceeded with the vet visit and to my surprise the vet seemed to be very familiar with tortoises. The baby weighed in at 46mg. She asked about its living conditions and how long I've had it for. Also went over the types of food I should feed it and regarding calcium supplements. We talked about its symptoms and she asked if it has been lethargic. She examined the baby especially its eyes since I was concerned about the uvb light I had used. She saw some discharge on its nose and swabbed a sample, examined it under a microscope and said there were signs of bacteria. She gave me antibiotics. She told me to continue with the baby carrot soaks, that it was a good thing to do.

This afternoon the baby seems to be doing better, it ate again. Eyes are wide open now. I still haven't seen any urine or poo so I suspect I should see some soon. Also the MVB bulb has arrived so that is now set up.

I don't want to get my hopes up just yet but the progress I'm seeing is relieving. I was to thank all those for their help and words of encouragement.

As far as calcium supplements...what is best for a hatchling?

 

[jtrux]

Just get the Zoo Med brand or Rep Cal, I mix it with the Mazuri once or twice a week. I'm not very consistent about it because i'm pretty sure he gets plenty from his diet (plenty of different greens...collard, turnip, etc) but I give him supplements just to make sure he gets enough.

 

[LunaLupus]

Try giving him a soaking in warm water, that always gets Tiny to poop. As for urine, Tiny only seems to pee on my husband. lol Glad your little guy is perking up some. Good luck!

 

[Laura Currado]

Off Topic Slightly: What's the wattage on that MVB and how far do you have it from the tort's substrate? We too went to a reptile show for supplies over the weekend and brought home a Leopard tortoise hatchling we weren't planning on. We bought the CHE and a Zilla UVB Florescent but I realize I'll need something else. So I'm curious about your bulb/placement.

 

[dannel]

Keep us posted!