New to the forum, redfoots age?

[blackcat38]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum so just thought I'd introduce myself and my torts. My name is Rachel and I'm from Leicester, UK, and I've had redfoots for nearly a year now.
Just wondering if someone could help me out, I've got 3 redfoots, 2 of which I got about 6 months ago. The lady I bought them off didn't know their ages- she had them herself for about a year. So I was wondering if anyone would know a rough age?

http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww195/blackcat38/

There are some photos of them on this link- if the link doesn't work then there is no hope cos my laptop is taking forever to upload the photos.

Anyways if it does work please have a look and tell me what you think
horatio's slc is 10.5cm
Colossus' scl is 12cm
I know they are probably too young yet to be sexed for sure but I can see a difference between Horatio and Colossus- can anyone else, male or female? I'm thinking Horatio is male and Colossus female?


my baby George, scl is 8.5cm and he is just over one year old
There's a pic of all three together to see the size difference

Thanks for looking

 

[jorrow]

I wouldnt be able to help you with age or sex but someone will... Just wanted to welcome you, and say what pretty bazilians you had. You can already see marbling on Horatio

 

[Chucky]

Torts all grow at different rates so it's hard to guess an age and be accurate. Just by going by the pictures, colossus could be 3 or 4 years old and the smaller ones could be 2 years or so. I'm just guessing so don't take my word for it.

 

[blackcat38]

I know it can be hard but it’s just me being curious
I’ve seen pics of torts from the same clutch being the same size, and then the same pair some time later but are completely different sizes.
I was just wondering really how old everyone else’s torts were when their scl were the same lengths as mine are now, just to get an approx age.
Thanks for your comments so far

 

[Chucky]

I was basing it on my redfoots but then mine all seem to be on the smaller side than most.

 

[blackcat38]

I think Horatio and Colossus are cherryheads and George is a 'normal', I've seen George’s parents and they have yellow heads with red legs and no marbling.
I'm quite confused about the different colour morphs and races you get, from reading on the uk forums I thought there were normal RF and cherryheads but reading on this forum there seem to be more variations.

Like Colombians and Guyanas, they are both northern but how can you tell which is from where? And are cherryheads just from Brazil?
Can northern red foots come in all colour variations but you know it’s northern because it has no marbling and hasn’t got a block of colour on its nose like a cherryhead?

Sorry for all the questions but I was looking at turtletary.com and there are so many different colours!

 

[Chucky]

The best bet for those answers would be to ask Turtletary since he has most of them.

 

[jorrow]

He would know........... I have a cherryhead with a yellow and red head. All the races beat me... I have gotten to the point of saying they are all just RF's. I know Turtletary raises specific bloodlines but other than the good breeders like them and WC RF's, i imagine the gene pool is so mixed up you never know what you have. I think a great deal of sellers just throw a name to th RF to make it sell for more and seem different.

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ohh but i do know that all cherryheads do not get marbling, i think it can happen in a normal rf too, but its just less common. not to sure about that though

 

[cdmay]

Blackcat... those are nice, healthy looking RFs. The two larger ones are indeed 'cherryheads' and these are presumably, all from eastern Brazil.
As for their age I would say that animals that size that were raised in captivity could be anywhere between 2 and 4 years old.
I wouldn't try to guess on the sexes just yet although Horatio is getting close to the size where you could take a stab at it.

 

[egyptiandan]

Do you have plastron pictures of George. He's looking like a cherryhead to me. If I was to guess, I would say you were right with the sexing.
They all look great.

Danny

 

[Madkins007]

Depending on who you talk to, there are up to 7 'groups' of Red-foots.

Functionally, I think there are probably basically 5, with some regional color variation within the 5. This is based on Vinke's South American Tortoises, Pritchard's Turtles of Venezuela, and so forth.

First, we can usually divide the Northerns from the Southerns by the plastron- a mostly light plastron is usually a Northerner, a mostly dark plastron is usually a Southerner.

North-eastern (E. Venezuela to French Guiana): the 'typical' Red-foot. 30-35cm adult length, black carapace background, constricted waist on adult male, yellow/orange/red colors on limbs.

North-western (Panama, Colombia, W. Venezuela): Shell background is more coffee/grey, almost no red coloration on limbs.

South-eastern (East Brazil): This region seems to be home to 2 variants- the 'red' and the 'yellow'.

'Reds' are the 'Cherry Head' variant. These MAY average a bit smaller (22-28cm), but many specimans are a bit larger than average. Reds tend to have very dark necks with bright red or orange colors on it. They tend to show shell mottling more often than others, and seem to have a slightly bulbous red-tip nose (the Rudolph Sign). They rarely show the male wasp-waist, but usually have a distinct hooked scale below the front elbows- almost a 'spur'.

'Yellows' look like North-easterns with yellow coloration and a dark plastron.

South-western (Paraguay and Bolivia): Big- 35-45cm- tortoises, little to no wasp-waist, 'spur' like the South-eastern Reds.


Within the above 5 groups, I think there are some local color variations- but a lot of these variations seem to disappear as the tortoises get older.

 

[blackcat38]

Madkinson007- That’s a fantastically clear explanation, thanks!

I really want the South American tortoise book but having to wait till the end of the month until my next student loan comes through- can only just afford to eat at the mo lol

I will post pics on George later, need to charge my camera, your all in bed now anyways so there’s no rush lol it’s 9.20am here so only just got up my self (easter hols, no uni )
I’ve got the some pics of his parents so I’ll post them too.

Glad everyones liking them so far, they are my pride and joy

 

[Jacqui]

Madkinson007- That’s a fantastically clear explanation, thanks!

Glad everyones liking them so far, they are my pride and joy

I agree that was a great explanation! It would be nice to have that done for a sticky on the top of the redfoot section.

You have every right to be proud of them and yourself for taking care of them. They are lovely animals, but what matters the most is how YOU feel about them. It's obvious how important they are to you.

 

[blackcat38]

Do you have plastron pictures of George. He's looking like a cherryhead to me.

I can't find my camera charger but here are the photos of George's parents

his Mum

His Dad

These are owned by blazingtortoise in the UK.

And here is George, they were taken a while ago so he is ever so slightly bigger

this is more recent that you've seen before from the link

From his parents do you still think he could be a cherryhead? I thought he was just a normal northern RF?

I'll post the plastron pic later

Rachel x

 

[egyptiandan]

All done Jacqui

Those adults are definately Northeastern Redfoots. George is just looking to all over red to me to be from those parents. I'm sure it's possible he did though, I have been wrong before.

Danny

 

[blackcat38]

The lady I bought George from said that she thinks those are his parents but she actually has 3 females and 1 male. She said Victoria was most likely to be Georges mum as she is the main egg layer but it is possible that it could be one of the other two.

Her other females-
Ted

steve (she though they were males at first)

So you can see Steve is a fab cherryhead but she said that Roger her male doesn't really pay any attention to the cherryhead and concentrates on the other 2 nothern RF's. I asked her if she separated the eggs from the different clutches but she doesn't.

So is it possible that George could be a cross? But all her other babies have the same colours as George, they couldn't all have come from the cherryhead.

She has a website www.blazingtortoise.co.uk if you want to have a look

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Those adults are definately Northeastern Redfoots. George is just looking to all over red to me to be from those parents. I'm sure it's possible he did though, I have been wrong before.

Danny

I thought maybe George's head would turn more yellow with age? He's only one year old, hatched feb 2008

 

[egyptiandan]

We have found the culprit Her female cherryhead has definately been laying, as most of her hatchlings look like cherryheads.
I would say that George is definately a cross.

Danny

 

[Jacqui]

All done Jacqui
Danny

Thanks! I just didn't want to put something to sticky status, without another mod agreeing it should be one.

 

[cdmay]

I was thinking that George was a cherryhead until I saw the photos of his parents. They are classic northerns with all of the hallmarks of that group. But I couldn't figure why George looked so uniformly red...until I saw that last female. Egads! Somebody has been messing around.
George looks to be of mixed heritage. Not an absolute statement, but pretty sure. A photo of the plastron would help.