No poo for 3 weeks, HELP PLEASE

[AnnawithNutmegMarginated]

[/size]My partner and I have a very poorly little girl, Nutmeg who is a Marginated tortoise, eleven years old. She was taken to the vets once out of her usual hibernation period and refused foods but drank plenty. It was found at the vets she was blind, due to the temperature dropping too low around her. An emergency x-ray was done and showed her to be perfectly fine inside. Since then, she got alot better, ate plenty and a wide variety of foods, also drinking lots of water with nutrients in. However my partner and I left her at his mums for two weeks whilst we were away. She ate as usual, bathed plenty and had lots of walks in the garden, supervised of course. She however did not poo for this entire time and has not since coming back to us. She continues to eat plenty and drink lots throughout the day. She was taken to the vets last night who gave her an enema. No sign of any poo yet. Starting to worry as she has become unusually sluggish and seeks corners to hide in and fall asleep as much as we try to get her to walk she seems very miserable about doing so. Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Nutmeg the Marginated, Anna and Rich x.

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome. Be sure to check all temps. A temp gun is better then the puck type items you buy a pet stores. She may be eating her poop, they do that. If she is not blocked per the X-ray, I would guess she's eating it. You can also try giving her a warm soak in a large container, like the bath tub, so she can walk around and try to get out. The warm water and movement will help to bring on a poop if she needs too. Good luck, hope all is fine with her.

 

[Jacqui]

Any chance she may have eaten rocks or the like and is impacted? The Vet did nothing but give an enema? So she was fine, but when you brought her home she has been poopless and sluggish? What are you feeding? Could she be eating her own poop?

 

[AnnawithNutmegMarginated]

Any chance she may have eaten rocks or the like and is impacted? The Vet did nothing but give an enema? So she was fine, but when you brought her home she has been poopless and sluggish? What are you feeding? Could she be eating her own poop?

I don't think she does eat her own poop. She finds it a struggle to eat without our hand feeding her unless we leave a huge pile for her to tuck into. No little stones or soil could have been eaten either It's quite worrying. We give her plenty of soaks, but I shall put her in the actual bath tub next time so she can walk around properly in the water and try and coax it out that way. The vet only gave her an enema, and us a pot with scoop to collect a sample to take in once she had been. The vet said it could take up to 48 hours to work, so we still have one day left. She eats a wide variety of food, lots of green leaves, tortoise supplements in her water and on her food, dandelion leaves, cucumber is a favourite of hers and she eats quite a lot more than mentioned, all advised by reptile specialists. The weather here is very hot now, we are having a heat wave. (In Somerset, South West England)

 

[AnnawithNutmegMarginated]

Hello and Welcome. Be sure to check all temps. A temp gun is better then the puck type items you buy a pet stores. She may be eating her poop, they do that. If she is not blocked per the X-ray, I would guess she's eating it. You can also try giving her a warm soak in a large container, like the bath tub, so she can walk around and try to get out. The warm water and movement will help to bring on a poop if she needs too. Good luck, hope all is fine with her.

Thank you for the welcome. I will be sure to try her in the bath tub first thing tomorrow. We have a couple of thermometers in different places in her indoor area, but we are having a serious heat wave at the moment so you maybe right about temps being off for her. Oh well, I will keep you updated.

 

[AnnawithNutmegMarginated]

Thank you for the welcome, and advice. I will keep you updated on Nutmegs activities in the loo area and updates from the vets. Hope I can help someone else who maybe experience similar issues with their little friend. x

 

[Yvonne G]

Welcome Anna and Rich!

 

[ascott]

You said that nothing showed up on the xray? No blockage, no eggs stuck? Perhaps when she was at the Mums she ingested some rocks/pebbles? Is there a possibility she could have eaten something in the yard that has had an ill affect on her? When you say enema, do you mean that they flushed the tort with fluids??? Or do you mean they inserted some type of mineral oil?

I would suggest that if you think that there is slow moving food-----I would slip some mineral oil into a piece of fruit (or some food item he loves) that he can eat in with one bite or so---I would offer up long warm water soaks (no less than 30 minutes)....

 

[AnnawithNutmegMarginated]

You said that nothing showed up on the xray? No blockage, no eggs stuck? Perhaps when she was at the Mums she ingested some rocks/pebbles? Is there a possibility she could have eaten something in the yard that has had an ill affect on her? When you say enema, do you mean that they flushed the tort with fluids??? Or do you mean they inserted some type of mineral oil?

I would suggest that if you think that there is slow moving food-----I would slip some mineral oil into a piece of fruit (or some food item he loves) that he can eat in with one bite or so---I would offer up long warm water soaks (no less than 30 minutes)....

 

[AnnawithNutmegMarginated]

She still has no sign off pooing still hiding in the shade but eating lots x

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Here is nutmeg in her bath today

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From above

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Nutmeg a couple of months ago

 

[ascott]

Adorable tort....how long have you had the cutie? Appears by the some of the common visual triggers that this tort has/is dealing with some MBD....

I also would love to see you add additional water to the soaking tub....I would add more water so that the torts shell is covered up to the skirt level of the shell---so that the tort will need to raise its head while in the soak but not so deep that the tort is distressed.....the legs should be under water and the chin should comfortably be held above water level....

 

[AnnawithNutmegMarginated]

I think the photos may be quite deceiving, we make sure her head is held comfortably above the water level and skirt just under, so it bubbles from behind when she goes in She is 12 years this year. She is adorable to be around as is very tolerable of anything we do, just seems a little off when she has to walk about at the moment which is very unlike her usual self. She just seems very unhappy when she is not sleeping in the dark/dim light of a room. We have persisted recently with getting her to walk but we do not wish to distress her any more than seems already we are.... Thank you every one for all the advice. Nutmeg, Anna and Richard xx

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Also what is MBD, sorry. x

 

[Laura]

MBD is Metabolic Bone Disease.. from lack of calcium...

Try the mineral oil or some canned pumpkin. No spice. just plain pumpkin.

 

[AnnawithNutmegMarginated]

MBD is Metabolic Bone Disease.. from lack of calcium...

Try the mineral oil or some canned pumpkin. No spice. just plain pumpkin.

Ouch, that sounds nasty. She is having calcium supplements in her food. Also no poo so back to vets soon to get some X-rays done, poor little thing x

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Also we cannot buy tinned pumpkin here in England, they just don't sell it any where.

 

[luvpetz27]

She is cute! I hope you can figure out what is going on wih her!! I can tell you both really care for her. Good luck to you!

 

[AnnawithNutmegMarginated]

Ok, so the X-ray showed nothing to the vets at all that they know of. They have sent a picture of the X-ray to more specialist people somewhere else in England. Am waiting for a phone call to see if they can see anything from it. I have taken a photo of the X-ray, so if there are any specialists out there who could have a look that would be useful. Also she has lost .06kg since her visit two days ago even though she has been eating and drinking. It's very confusing. Thank you all again x

 

[ascott]

I think you should really be soaking this tort for long long warm water soaks.....along with feeding some mineral oil to help lube the tort inside to aid in moving anything through that may be stubborn....

Calcium supplements are not a sure fire tool with MBD avoidance, only simply a tool....by the shape of your tort, by the splaying of the back legs and the description you are giving is the reason I mentioned MBD....

Metabolic Bone Disease

Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD) is a condition (or conditions) resulting in abnormal bone growth and/or repair. It encompasses the following conditions and syndromes; osteoporosis, osteomalacia, osteopenia, rickets, fibrous osteodystrophy, hypocalcemia and nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism.

Causes:

MBD is generally the long term result of deficient dietary calcium and/or vitamin D3. This results in a negative calciumhosphorous ratio and is caused by the following:

Too little calcium or too much phosphorus in the diet.

The presence of substances in the diet that impair the absorption of calcium (e.g. oxalates, phytates etc)

A deficiency of vitamin D3 from the lack of exposure to proper amounts of UVB either from unfiltered sunlight or high quality UVB lighting.

Inadequate protein or excessive protein.
kidney or liver disease (which impair conversion of vitamin D to it's active from), small intestinal disease and/or parasites(disrupts absorption), and disease of the thyroid or parathyroid glands (produce hormones which affect calcium metabolism). These are minor contributors - most cases are nutritionally based.

Improper (too cool) basking temperatures temperatures impair digestion and therefore calcium absorption . It also inhibits the production of D3 by UVB light.


Diagnosis:

The diagnosis is usually made from a dietary and environmental history as well as clinical signs.

Dietary and Environmental History

A proper diet is critical to the health of the tortoise. In general you want a diet that's high in calcium, high in fiber, low in phosphorous and adequate in protein. This is discussed in more detail in the diet sections and in the pyramiding section.

The tortoise also needs a proper environment. Without this, even a perfect diet can result in MBD.

Some critical factors are UVB and moisture levels. However too much is just as harmful as too little. To strike a proper balance, gradients are needed.
The tort needs a warm basking area with UVB, but it also requires a cooler section without UVB.
This allows it to not only regulate its body temperature, but to also control its UVB exposure.
The same is true for moisture. It needs a warm moist area as well as a cool dry spot.

Clinical Signs:

Weak limbs resulting in an unsteady gait and the inability to raise the plastron off the ground when walking.

A depressed posterior carapace giving rise to the appearance of being humped back.

The whole carapace may be flattened rather than domed.

Pyramiding

The shell appearing too small for its body.

Soft shell

Abnormal beak, often appearing like a parrot's beak or a duck's bill.

Bowed or deformed legs.

Anorexia

Lethargy

Constipation

Treatment and Prevention:

MBD is far easier to prevent than to treat. Some of the important issues are:

Dietary calcium. The best source of calcium is a varied diet. Grocery store greens are often lower in calcium than the weeds and grasses available in the wild.
To make up for this it is often recommended that all food be dusted with phosphorous free calcium.
However, too much calcium can be as bad as too little.

Another problem that's often overlooked is that bone is made of a variety of minerals including magnesium and boron. Calcium powders don't provide these.
Instead I prefer to keep cuttlebone with them at all times. Cuttlebone is high in calcium and the necessary trace minerals.

Low dietary phosphorous. If you follow the diet guidelines on this site, this will not be an issue.

Adequate Protein. Protein is essential for muscle growth. Young and active animals require more than older inactive tortoises.

High Fiber. This is important for intestinal health.

Exercise.

Correct Lighting. A quality UVB bulb or daily access to unfiltered sun is essential.

Proper Temperature

The above is not only important for prevention, but is also a critical part of treatment.


http://www.exoticpetvet.com/images/Leopard tortoise 4.jpg

Pic of a Leopard tort....linked here simply so you can see the shape and slope of an affected tort...

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http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...z8HpUb3xOobCigLY5oC4Dg&ved=0CFYQ9QEwDQ&dur=70