oak trees
- Thread starter John
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I don't know the answer to your question but it was talked about in this thread, maybe it can help.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Silly-Question-on-Leaf-Litter
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Silly-Question-on-Leaf-Litter
I haven't heard that before, but I have a large live oak tree in my yard that drops tons of acorns. I have never seen my leopards eat the acorns or the tree leaves. In fact, I have seen them pick around acorns and leaves to find good grass. Perhaps as long as I have other food they prefer they will leave the acorns alone. 
Don't have your answer, but us roachers feed dead, dry, weathered oak leaves of any species to all of our roaches. Never the green ones though...
I have never heard that. We have many oak trees in our fields and ours eat many of the fallen leaves on a regular basis. Never seen any issues with eating oak leaves.
I found it. the oak has toxic properties especially in the spring the young buds.it contains tanic acid which can cause gastroenteritis,kidney damage in torts.and has been known too kill horses.it is listed as do not feed,but will leopard torts bother too eat the fallen leaves,trying too decide if i need too bust out my chainsaw in the spring, this info comes from the tortoise table (edible plants for tortoise's)
squamata said:
That is interesting!
Tortoise table has some pretty good people behind it that know a thing or two about plants.
Now whether you have to worry about them eating leaves that fall into the enclosure is another story. They are exposed to in the wild foods that are good for them and foods that aren't. If it tastes bad to them it is bad and they usually won't eat it again. Aldabras on the other hand come from an island were just about everything is edible and they eat it. So having them here doesn't change the way they go about eating and so will eat anything they can find, whether it's good or bad for them.
Totally up to you how you want to handle the leaves falling into your enclosure, cut down the trees or pick up the leaves.
Danny
Now whether you have to worry about them eating leaves that fall into the enclosure is another story. They are exposed to in the wild foods that are good for them and foods that aren't. If it tastes bad to them it is bad and they usually won't eat it again. Aldabras on the other hand come from an island were just about everything is edible and they eat it. So having them here doesn't change the way they go about eating and so will eat anything they can find, whether it's good or bad for them.
Totally up to you how you want to handle the leaves falling into your enclosure, cut down the trees or pick up the leaves.
Danny
My horse died this spring.. got really sick in Feb. His pasture has all sorts of oak trees.. makes me wonder if it had something to do with it. vet never said anything..
He was older, and it was intestinal related..
dang....
He was older, and it was intestinal related..
dang....
UCD VET VIEWS
CALIFORNIA CATTLEMAN, JANUARY 2001
OAK TOXICITY
Recently, I have had a number of questions regarding the toxicity of oak trees (leaves and buds) or acorns for cattle. Most of our cattle in California spend at least part of the year in areas where oak trees abound. Health problems due to ingestion of oak leaves or acorns are certainly not an everyday problem; however, when problems do occur they can be catastrophic. Several years ago, in a few northern California counties, about 2,700 cattle died due to oak toxicity.
Do all oak trees contain the toxins? There are more than 50 common species of oak trees in California and all contain some level of the chemicals that can cause problems in cattle. The buds, young leaves and fresh acorns have the highest level of toxins. There is considerable variation in the concentration of toxins in the plant tissues and is dependent on (1) the species of oak trees, (2) the season of the year, (3) the year in question, depending on climatic conditions. The chemical toxins in question are tannins and phenols, which are naturally contained in the plant material, but vary in concentration based on the variables listed above.
How do the toxins affect cattle? The oak toxins (tannins and phenols) attack the proteins they contact. Thus, the gastrointestinal tract (mouth, esophagus, rumen, and intestines) is damaged by direct contact. This results in ulcers, bleeding, and perforation in some cases. So if the cattle survive long enough, bloody diarrhea or dark diarrhea is seen. Also, in the rumen, some of the tannins are converted to other chemicals (gallic acid and pyrogallols) that are absorbed into the blood stream, travel to the kidneys where they cause severe damage to the kidneys. This damage to the kidneys results in renal failure, which can cause death in many cases. The younger cattle (less than 400 pounds) are usually more severely affected than older cattle.
What do the affected cattle look like? Symptoms usually appear shortly after cattle eat 50% or more of their diet as oak (leaves, buds, acorns). Some animals may simply be found dead. Others may appear weak and listless, without an appetite. A day or two after eating the oak leaves or buds, bloody or dark diarrhea may be noticed. As kidney failure progresses, fluid may accumulate around the anus or vulva. Throughout, the cattle appear weak, listless, and have no appetite.
What are the most important risk factors that can lead to oak toxicity? The presence of large numbers of acorns when forage is scarce is one of the main risks. Wind, hail, or snowstorms can cause large number of acorns or limbs from oak trees to drop so that cattle can gain easy access. California outbreaks have been worse in the late winter and early spring when oak buds and small leaves are present in large numbers and a wet snowstorm occurs. The wet snow breaks branches and limbs and the snow also covers the available grass and leaves the cattle very hungry. This leads to consumption of these very toxic buds and leaves because it is the only feed available.
What is the acorn calf syndrome? The acorn calf syndrome is completely different from the typical oak toxicity problems seen in cattle. Acorn calves are congenitally malformed calves born to cows that have ingested large numbers of acorns under very poor forage conditions during the second trimester of pregnancy (3-7 months of pregnancy). The cause appears to be a combination of poor nutrition and exposure to acorns. The calves have very short legs, abnormal hooves, and misshapen heads (either short noses or long narrow heads). These calves look like dwarves in most instances. Occasionally, more than 10% of the calves in a herd will be acorn calves.
How can these problems be prevented? Oak toxicity can be prevented by supplementing the cattle with hay when forage conditions are poor and acorns are abundant. Likewise, when late snowstorms cover the forage and knock down oak limbs with large amounts of buds and young leaves, be sure to start hay supplementation immediately. A delay of only a day or two could result in many deaths. Prevention of acorn calves is also a matter of being sure adequate forage is available or supplementing with hay or other forage when running the cattle in oak areas.
John Maas, DVM, MS
Diplomate, ACVN & ACVIM
Extension Veterinarian
School of Veterinary Medicine
University of California, Davis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CALIFORNIA CATTLEMAN, JANUARY 2001
OAK TOXICITY
Recently, I have had a number of questions regarding the toxicity of oak trees (leaves and buds) or acorns for cattle. Most of our cattle in California spend at least part of the year in areas where oak trees abound. Health problems due to ingestion of oak leaves or acorns are certainly not an everyday problem; however, when problems do occur they can be catastrophic. Several years ago, in a few northern California counties, about 2,700 cattle died due to oak toxicity.
Do all oak trees contain the toxins? There are more than 50 common species of oak trees in California and all contain some level of the chemicals that can cause problems in cattle. The buds, young leaves and fresh acorns have the highest level of toxins. There is considerable variation in the concentration of toxins in the plant tissues and is dependent on (1) the species of oak trees, (2) the season of the year, (3) the year in question, depending on climatic conditions. The chemical toxins in question are tannins and phenols, which are naturally contained in the plant material, but vary in concentration based on the variables listed above.
How do the toxins affect cattle? The oak toxins (tannins and phenols) attack the proteins they contact. Thus, the gastrointestinal tract (mouth, esophagus, rumen, and intestines) is damaged by direct contact. This results in ulcers, bleeding, and perforation in some cases. So if the cattle survive long enough, bloody diarrhea or dark diarrhea is seen. Also, in the rumen, some of the tannins are converted to other chemicals (gallic acid and pyrogallols) that are absorbed into the blood stream, travel to the kidneys where they cause severe damage to the kidneys. This damage to the kidneys results in renal failure, which can cause death in many cases. The younger cattle (less than 400 pounds) are usually more severely affected than older cattle.
What do the affected cattle look like? Symptoms usually appear shortly after cattle eat 50% or more of their diet as oak (leaves, buds, acorns). Some animals may simply be found dead. Others may appear weak and listless, without an appetite. A day or two after eating the oak leaves or buds, bloody or dark diarrhea may be noticed. As kidney failure progresses, fluid may accumulate around the anus or vulva. Throughout, the cattle appear weak, listless, and have no appetite.
What are the most important risk factors that can lead to oak toxicity? The presence of large numbers of acorns when forage is scarce is one of the main risks. Wind, hail, or snowstorms can cause large number of acorns or limbs from oak trees to drop so that cattle can gain easy access. California outbreaks have been worse in the late winter and early spring when oak buds and small leaves are present in large numbers and a wet snowstorm occurs. The wet snow breaks branches and limbs and the snow also covers the available grass and leaves the cattle very hungry. This leads to consumption of these very toxic buds and leaves because it is the only feed available.
What is the acorn calf syndrome? The acorn calf syndrome is completely different from the typical oak toxicity problems seen in cattle. Acorn calves are congenitally malformed calves born to cows that have ingested large numbers of acorns under very poor forage conditions during the second trimester of pregnancy (3-7 months of pregnancy). The cause appears to be a combination of poor nutrition and exposure to acorns. The calves have very short legs, abnormal hooves, and misshapen heads (either short noses or long narrow heads). These calves look like dwarves in most instances. Occasionally, more than 10% of the calves in a herd will be acorn calves.
How can these problems be prevented? Oak toxicity can be prevented by supplementing the cattle with hay when forage conditions are poor and acorns are abundant. Likewise, when late snowstorms cover the forage and knock down oak limbs with large amounts of buds and young leaves, be sure to start hay supplementation immediately. A delay of only a day or two could result in many deaths. Prevention of acorn calves is also a matter of being sure adequate forage is available or supplementing with hay or other forage when running the cattle in oak areas.
John Maas, DVM, MS
Diplomate, ACVN & ACVIM
Extension Veterinarian
School of Veterinary Medicine
University of California, Davis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
that sound like nothing like my horse had.. Diarhea, but not dark or bloody.. loss pf appetite.. but no kidney issues..
No oaks in the tort pen..
my goats forage a lot tho...
so far. no problems..
No oaks in the tort pen..
my goats forage a lot tho...
so far. no problems..
I done further research on this issue. Our oak trees were removed today, just not worth the risk.
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