Outdoor habitat

[FigsServant]

So I am getting ready to start building an outdoor enclosure for my 11 month old Hermanns. I read that I need to build him up to it, starting with maybe a couple hours a day, then add more hours the next week, etc. He will not live outside full time. The goal is to bring him out in the morning and bring him inside at night.
My concern is ants. We live in Florida and have an abundance of ants, including fire ants that try to set up homes in our yard. We thought of possibly raising the enclosure and putting it on legs like the one inside but it would be much simpler and easier to maintain of I could take advantage of using the earth to help drain naturally, especially since in the summer time, we get rain nearly every day.
What is the best way to go about this? I don't know if i could use any type of ant deterrent that wouldn't be toxic to my tortoise.
The enclosure will be 9x6 if that matters and stocked with fake plants.

 

[wellington]

First, you don't need to work him up to it. Whoever said that is wrong.
Also, why fake plants? Put real plants that he can eat. Get them now, clean the dirt off of them and replant in plain dirt or even coconut coir. By spring, they would be safe to put in the enclosure.
As for the ant, I don't deal with those where I am, but I do know diatomaceous earth, food quality kind might work.
Put some down now and by the time the build is done, most of it should be washed away and hopefully ants gone too. Then spread some on the outside perimeter of the enclosure.

 

[TheTortoiseKing]

hibiscus are tortoise edible and look great. Check out tortoise table for edible plants

 

[FigsServant]

The fake plants are because I read that the pesticides and fertilizers that big garden centers use can last in the plants leaves for a year.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I wouldn’t have him out all day until he’s closer to 3 years, but a few hours outdoors each day will be wonderful! Hopefully folks can make some suggestions on the ant front!

 

[Maggie3fan]

First, you don't need to work him up to it. Whoever said that is wrong.
Also, why fake plants? Put real plants that he can eat. Get them now, clean the dirt off of them and replant in plain dirt or even coconut coir. By spring, they would be safe to put in the enclosure.
As for the ant, I don't deal with those where I am, but I do know diatomaceous earth, food quality kind might work.
Put some down now and by the time the build is done, most of it should be washed away and hopefully ants gone too. Then spread some on the outside perimeter of the enclosure.

I recently used food grade diatomaceous earth to rid my enclosures of ants and my house from fleas...Frankly it's sorta like having a flour fight throughout the area. My flea infestation was very bad and they are gone now and the major ant nest is dead...It rains in Oregon too, but the stuff is cheap and fairly easy to use...and vacuums up...my cats walk in it...but to use it around our animals it must be food grade, not commercial...
she acts so innocent...

 

[wellington]

I recently used food grade diatomaceous earth to rid my enclosures of ants and my house from fleas...Frankly it's sorta like having a flour fight throughout the area. My flea infestation was very bad and they are gone now and the major ant nest is dead...It rains in Oregon too, but the stuff is cheap and fairly easy to use...and vacuums up...my cats walk in it...but to use it around our animals it must be food grade, not commercial...View attachment 382438
she acts so innocent...

LMAO, entertainment she is. Enjoy

 

[Tom]

So I am getting ready to start building an outdoor enclosure for my 11 month old Hermanns. I read that I need to build him up to it, starting with maybe a couple hours a day, then add more hours the next week, etc. He will not live outside full time. The goal is to bring him out in the morning and bring him inside at night.
My concern is ants. We live in Florida and have an abundance of ants, including fire ants that try to set up homes in our yard. We thought of possibly raising the enclosure and putting it on legs like the one inside but it would be much simpler and easier to maintain of I could take advantage of using the earth to help drain naturally, especially since in the summer time, we get rain nearly every day.
What is the best way to go about this? I don't know if i could use any type of ant deterrent that wouldn't be toxic to my tortoise.
The enclosure will be 9x6 if that matters and stocked with fake plants.

Slow acclimation to the great outdoors is best in my experience. Indoors one day and outdoors full time the next day is shocking to them. I've done it both ways many times with many species under many circumstances over many years, and slow acclimation is by far the better way to to it, especially with little ones like yours at 11 months old.

Kill the ants. Kill all of them. I like to use Amdro ant granules. This is a toxic pesticide, so keep it away from your tortoise. Pour it right on the ant hill openings, and give them time to carry it down into the nest underground. Don't scatter it around as the directions say. Don't let your tortoise have access to the area until the ants and the granules are gone. Treating outside the enclosure is not as much of a problem. I usually cover the treated area with a metal wire basket until the ants carry it away. This keeps pets and other animals away from it. Start at the enclosure and radiate out. The farther back your push your ant free perimeter, the longer it will take for them to come back. You must be vigilant about this. Ants can kill your tortoise. I've lost two this way over the years. Diatomaceous earth did nothing to my ants, and it's hard to use in a rainy climate. If you try it, let us know how well it works for you. I think @Dustin might be able to offer the best advice for your area.

Fake plants are likely to be eaten and can cause impaction. Use real plants, but grow them from seeds, or cuttings from other plants. If you buy small store bought potted plants, allow at least 12 weeks for the pesticides to dissipate after re-potting in new "clean" soil.

For the rain, it seems like you'll need some sort of cover. Maybe an Easy-UP, or an umbrella? The way most people do it is to have a shelter of some sort for the tortoise to sleep in at night and stay out of the rain on rainy days. I show how to do that in this thread:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Dustin]

Tom's advice on the ants is good. Don't bother with diatomaceous earth or anything like that. There are numerous versions of Amdro available. The versions they sell at Home Depot are barely effective against fire ants. Look for a product called Advion Fire Ant Bait, you can find it online or at specialty pest control supply places. It is the fastest acting bait product for fire ants and it is approved for use in grazed pastures. You don't even have to apply it in the tortoise pen if that makes you uncomfortable, you can sprinkle it around the exterior and the foragers will bring it back to the mounds.
The only downside it has is moisture sensitivity. Rain and damp soil seems to inactivate it.

Since you brought up the rain, make sure you build in an area that doesn't flood. Once he is outside full time you can't plan on always being home to move him to safety. Any area you elevate outside will be a magnet for fire ants too if they are bad in your area.

 

[wellington]

Slow acclimation to the great outdoors is best in my experience. Indoors one day and outdoors full time the next day is shocking to them. I've done it both ways many times with many species under many circumstances over many years, and slow acclimation is by far the better way to to it, especially with little ones like yours at 11 months old.

Kill the ants. Kill all of them. I like to use Amdro ant granules. This is a toxic pesticide, so keep it away from your tortoise. Pour it right on the ant hill openings, and give them time to carry it down into the nest underground. Don't scatter it around as the directions say. Don't let your tortoise have access to the area until the ants and the granules are gone. Treating outside the enclosure is not as much of a problem. I usually cover the treated area with a metal wire basket until the ants carry it away. This keeps pets and other animals away from it. Start at the enclosure and radiate out. The farther back your push your ant free perimeter, the longer it will take for them to come back. You must be vigilant about this. Ants can kill your tortoise. I've lost two this way over the years. Diatomaceous earth did nothing to my ants, and it's hard to use in a rainy climate. If you try it, let us know how well it works for you. I think @Dustin might be able to offer the best advice for your area.

Fake plants are likely to be eaten and can cause impaction. Use real plants, but grow them from seeds, or cuttings from other plants. If you buy small store bought potted plants, allow at least 12 weeks for the pesticides to dissipate after re-potting in new "clean" soil.

For the rain, it seems like you'll need some sort of cover. Maybe an Easy-UP, or an umbrella? The way most people do it is to have a shelter of some sort for the tortoise to sleep in at night and stay out of the rain on rainy days. I show how to do that in this thread:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Funny, I have never heard/read ANYONE on here ever say anything about slow acclimation from indoor to outside. People ALL the time bring their torts in at night and out the next day when weather permits. Never ever taking it slow.

 

[wellington]

The fake plants are because I read that the pesticides and fertilizers that big garden centers use can last in the plants leaves for a year.

Not likely a year, but yes, that's why you buy them now, rinse the dirt off, replant and use them in the spring. There are also places that sell tortoise safe plants that are planted to be used right away. I'm not sure how many different ones are available. You can also take cuttings from family and friends that doesn't use pesticides.
Many torts have gone after fake plants thinking it's food, so be sure to keep an eye out for that.

 

[wellington]

Tom's advice on the ants is good. Don't bother with diatomaceous earth or anything like that. There are numerous versions of Amdro available. The versions they sell at Home Depot are barely effective against fire ants. Look for a product called Advion Fire Ant Bait, you can find it online or at specialty pest control supply places. It is the fastest acting bait product for fire ants and it is approved for use in grazed pastures. You don't even have to apply it in the tortoise pen if that makes you uncomfortable, you can sprinkle it around the exterior and the foragers will bring it back to the mounds.
The only downside it has is moisture sensitivity. Rain and damp soil seems to inactivate it.

Since you brought up the rain, make sure you build in an area that doesn't flood. Once he is outside full time you can't plan on always being home to move him to safety. Any area you elevate outside will be a magnet for fire ants too if they are bad in your area.

Except diatomaceous earth is safer and has worked many times. Most recent is Maggie's post!
Putting poison in a tortoise enclosure is against everything that has ever been said about poisons from the same who is saying to do it.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I'm in south Florida and I've been able to 100% eliminate FIRE ANTS.
I used AMDRO Fire Ant granules in glass jars with metal lids. Holes poked in the lids and some baited with peanut butter. Some with bologna. It seemed like the fire ants are fans on cheap, processed meat. The meat was to attract them. But it might've been unnecessary.

The jars make the poison tortoise proof, and if you can hide them away and tilt them slightly facing down, they're also quite rain proof.

Initially I treated the 3 mounds. One in my front yard and two in the back yard. Then I used the granules in a broadcast spreader and cast them through the entire yard. This wasn't an issue since my tortoises do not free range the yard. They do not leave their dedicated enclosures. (Which contained the jars) I did this weekly for a few months.
Eventually it worked even better than I had hoped. And even now, there are no signs of them. Not just in MY OWN yard. But I see no mounds in my neighbors yards either. That stuff really kicked some @ss!
I no longer do any treatment of any kind. I just don't need to. The insects and ants that are still out there are just not harmful.
It was a total success and has lasted probably 7 plus years now. And counting.
As for the diatomaceous earth...it's safe and it's been used successfully for ages. But in my opinion, south Florida's humidity takes away much of the effectiveness and I've had no luck using it here.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Not likely a year, but yes, that's why you buy them now, rinse the dirt off, replant and use them in the spring. There are also places that sell tortoise safe plants that are planted to be used right away. I'm not sure how many different ones are available. You can also take cuttings from family and friends that doesn't use pesticides.
Many torts have gone after fake plants thinking it's food, so be sure to keep an eye out for that.

I can only speak of Redfoot. But I believe the risk of eating plastic plants is more dangerous than a tortoise nibbling on a systemically treated plant. And mine would do both.
The plants grow quickly outside. I've become convinced that the new growth has a minimal danger level. And certainly within a few months, it's even less.
I have never had an issue with any tortoise eating a hardware store plant. And I haven't always been as cautious or as patient as I could've (or should've been)
Plastic plants are just not a great idea in my opinion. Especially outdoors. Unless they're for aesthetic reasons and placed out of reach of the curious torts.

 

[Tom]

Funny, I have never heard/read ANYONE on here ever say anything about slow acclimation from indoor to outside. People ALL the time bring their torts in at night and out the next day when weather permits. Never ever taking it slow.

"One hour of access to sunshine per inch of tortoise..." doesn't sound familiar?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Funny, I have never heard/read ANYONE on here ever say anything about slow acclimation from indoor to outside. People ALL the time bring their torts in at night and out the next day when weather permits. Never ever taking it slow.

I have read Tom talk about for younger tortoises on multiple occasions. But I guess it can be taken differently.

 

[wellington]

I have read Tom talk about for younger tortoises on multiple occasions. But I guess it can be taken differently.

I have read not leaving them out all day, but to put them out for short periods, depending on age/size, never about slow acclimation or every other day.

 

[wellington]

"One hour of access to sunshine per inch of tortoise..." doesn't sound familiar?

Yes, that I have read many times and repeated myself. For some reason, what you said above and how the OP said it, didn't register in my brain as being that same method.
I also didn't realize/missed it was so young and thought it was going to live outside when enclosure was done.
I totally misunderstood both

 

[MenagerieGrl]

Funny, I have never heard/read ANYONE on here ever say anything about slow acclimation from indoor to outside. People ALL the time bring their torts in at night and out the next day when weather permits. Never ever taking it slow.

I think the issue is having a tortoise "Inside", protected, & warm all it's life (11 months) then setting it outside . .all at once. Folks that put their torts out for the day and Bring them in for the night have torts that are already acclimated. I agree with @Tom, take your time, it's not a race...

 

[wellington]

I think the issue is having a tortoise "Inside", protected, & warm all it's life (11 months) then setting it outside . .all at once. Folks that put their torts out for the day and Bring them in for the night have torts that are already acclimated. I agree with @Tom, take your time, it's not a race...

If you read my other post, you'd see that I didn't take it the way he meant it. Some how I read it different.
Yes, I agree with the short visits when little.