Outdoor habitat

[Joemcdonald]

Hey guys so I’m pretty new to tortoises. I’m really wanting to get a tortoise and have been doing tons of research and not gonna lie it’s been exhausting as I feel like I see so many conflicting information. But anyways I live in San Diego CA and I’d like to have an outdoor year round enclosure. And I was wondering what you guys thought of a small green house inside their enclosure so they can go inside to get warm. I’d need to come up with a way for them to be able to go inside and outside. I don’t know if something small like this would work? https://www.wayfair.com/outdoor/pdp...t-growing-firwood-xlvf6505.html?piid=66343839

Also any help with what type of tortoise would live well in my climate. I’ve been looking at SA leopards, Sr Lankan Stars, marginated tortoises. I don’t have any tortoises right now. Just in the planning and researching stage. Want to make sure I’m fully prepared before I bring one home.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello! So glad you’ve made your way to the forum! I know first hand how confusing and overwhelming the beginning stages of research can feel, fact is there is so much, too much, misinformation and outdated care advice out there, this comes from sources outside the forum like facebook, YouTube, pet stores, most breeders and even most vets. I promise you cannot go wrong using this site as your only source of information for all things tortoise, this forum is made up of members around the world, some incredibly experienced in raising a multitude of different healthy smooth tortoise species long term, time and time again, every single day, we have new members joining, also confused and conflicted on care information, sometimes the outdated care they’re following is having dire consequences, I’ve seen countless members come here asking for help, sure enough once on the right track following the advice here, their tortoises improve, stick around and you’ll see why SO many tortoise owners love it here! It’s quite literally the perfect hive mind of the most up to date care advice out there! You can challenge members and ask all relevant questions to find the answers you truly need, don’t just take our word, we can put our money where our mouth is!

So first up, if you’re looking into getting a hatchling of any kind, they will need raising in a closed chamber set up for roughly the first 3 years of life, this is because babies need higher humidity to aid in smooth growth, and to better control your environmental factors during their vital growing stage. They can have an hour or two outside though. As for the greenhouse, yes they can work, however one common factor is not being able to control the suns heat, various tests need to be carried out in making sure there’s no chance of it overheating, they’re nice as areas in drier climates in creating higher humidity spots, however most modify sheds or create night boxes as a safe place for tortoise to sleep/retreat to.

I’m going to link this housing thread on leopards as an example for one of the species you’re interested in, this information can also apply to stars, but not marginated(for more information on their care click my profile and scroll down to find my ‘young russian/herman’ thread)

This thread covers equipment, levels, importance of a closed chamber for younger tortoises(only way to maintain the humidity you need), appropriately maintaining the humidity, substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything and a really handy diet link to check out! If going with a greenhouse, the lower the ceiling height, whilst still allowing for recommended bulb height, the better!

Leopard/sulcata starter

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information below on how I’d personally tackle an indoor starter set up for a leopard/sulcata until they’re bigger. Hopefully it helps give people some ideas!” I know it looks like a lot to go over, I like to make sure all bases are covered...

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This one includes some other closed chamber options(to last until big enough for an adult set up, id go as big as you can)

Visual inspiration

Hi guys! I’ve had some lovely messages complimenting me on my care sheets I made for all the visuals they include! That makes me so happy because as a visual learner myself, that was my goal🥰 I’ve recently had some requests for some more visual inspiration for set ups that can house babies/...

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Lastly, probably the most important, this one is also really good to familiarise yourself with, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

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Hope they help! Always happy to try and answer any further questions once you’ve read them! Welcome to the forum, lovely to have you here

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Oh also do bear in mind when navigating the site, to check the dates of threads/posts, some do contain outdated information now as this forum is over 15 years old

 

[Joemcdonald]

Hey thanks for all the info. I read all those threads and they are super informative. I do have another question. So right now leopard tortoises are my top pick. I’m curious about the temperature. I know it says nothing below 80 degrees. But is that for just hatchlings or adults. Just wondering for keeping an adult tortoise outside at night what the lowest the temp can drop to. Also was wondering about having multiple leopards. I know everyone says not pairs but would 3 leopards work together if in a big enough enclosure outside?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

This applies to adult Leopard tortoises as well - their core body temperature should not drop below 80F. You have to provide them a heated insulated night box when they grow too large to be housed inside. During the day they can leave and enter it at will and you need to make sure they stay there at night (with door locked). A battle-proven night box design can be found on this forum as well.

3 leopard males or 2 males and 1 female should be housed separately. A group of 3 females or 1 males and 2 females can work. Some tortoises, no matter what sex is, can get extremely territorial and should be separated from a group.

 

[Joemcdonald]

Awesome thanks for the help! So would a green house inside their territory with a CHE hooked to a thermostat to kick on at 80 degrees work for them at night?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Awesome thanks for the help! So would a green house inside their territory with a CHE hooked to a thermostat to kick on at 80 degrees work for them at night?

Usually it's a more serious build, like this:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

Spot heat sources like CHE or incandescent bulbs are not enough to warm up a large tortoise and can cause shell burns when mounted too low.

Large greenhouses can be used in cold climates to provide usable grazing area. However, heating, when needed, is done differently (usually it's underground heating). A combination of a night box and greenhouse is viable too.

 

[Joemcdonald]

Awesome. This is so helpful. I’m glad I found this forum because the information I was finding was so confusing. For plants in their outdoor enclosure. Is there a thread for good plants to plant inside also how do you keep the plants alive with the tortoises eating the plants?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Awesome. This is so helpful. I’m glad I found this forum because the information I was finding was so confusing. For plants in their outdoor enclosure. Is there a thread for good plants to plant inside also how do you keep the plants alive with the tortoises eating the plants?

Information can be confusing as there is more than one right way of doing things. For the peace of mind you can follow forum's care sheets - they are well-written and work nicely for many keepers.

For the outdoor habitat you need some bushes and/or trees (like hibiscus, mulberry, rose of Sharon etc.), perhaps spineless opuntia. For foraging weeds you can sow Testudo Seed Mix from Tortoise Supply. You can feed mallow, broadleaf plantain, dandelions and many others. Just make sure that you use plant varieties suitable for your climatic zone. Ornamental plants - like sedges

Keeping plants alive is only possible in a large enough enclosure. Or keeping them out of reach - e.g. build borders (cinder blocks, pots without bottom etc.). Having a spare seedlings tray or "mother plant" for cuttings is a nice idea. Most troubles are not because tortoises eat plants but because they stomp them and drag around.

Some ideas for plants can be found here:
https://startortoises.net/diet.html (also check The Tortoise Table link there - it's a decent database of edible plants). The site also has some good ideas for setting up outdoor pens.

And another list of "edible landscaping" plants:

Tortoise Edible Landscaping

Sulcata and Leopard Tortoises care and breeding

www.africantortoise.com

 

[Azzanni]

Hey guys so I’m pretty new to tortoises. I’m really wanting to get a tortoise and have been doing tons of research and not gonna lie it’s been exhausting as I feel like I see so many conflicting information. But anyways I live in San Diego CA and I’d like to have an outdoor year round enclosure. And I was wondering what you guys thought of a small green house inside their enclosure so they can go inside to get warm. I’d need to come up with a way for them to be able to go inside and outside. I don’t know if something small like this would work? https://www.wayfair.com/outdoor/pdp...t-growing-firwood-xlvf6505.html?piid=66343839

Also any help with what type of tortoise would live well in my climate. I’ve been looking at SA leopards, Sr Lankan Stars, marginated tortoises. I don’t have any tortoises right now. Just in the planning and researching stage. Want to make sure I’m fully prepared before I bring one home.

I have a Desert Tortoise..got him when he was 1 year old and he is now 18.. lives outside all year in a burrow that he dug…of course, I helped out initially.

You should join the Tortoise Society. They have zoom meeting every month and you can ask questions at the end.

Never feed them meat of any kind…only raw veggie, like bell peppers, romaine lettuce.(never head lettuce..it has no nutritional value) carrots slices, grapes, apples, oranges, and cactus without the stickers..

…. Also since they do not drink water from their mouth, you have to soak them in tepid water, up past their anal area..they suck up water thru there. Ha ha. Normally, in the wild…they will find a small lake, and back into to drink.

They do not swim..so never put them in water, they will drown. Desert Tortoise live in the ground only..

They are fascinating..give them a name..and soon they will come to you when you call it. They hibernate for about 6 months in the winter.

Hope that helps…

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I have a Desert Tortoise..got him when he was 1 year old and he is now 18.. lives outside all year in a burrow that he dug…of course, I helped out initially.

You should join the Tortoise Society. They have zoom meeting every month and you can ask questions at the end.

Never feed them meat of any kind…only raw veggie, like bell peppers, romaine lettuce.(never head lettuce..it has no nutritional value) carrots slices, grapes, apples, oranges, and cactus without the stickers..

…. Also since they do not drink water from their mouth, you have to soak them in tepid water, up past their anal area..they suck up water thru there. Ha ha. Normally, in the wild…they will find a small lake, and back into to drink.

They do not swim..so never put them in water, they will drown. Desert Tortoise live in the ground only..

They are fascinating..give them a name..and soon they will come to you when you call it. They hibernate for about 6 months in the winter.

Hope that helps…

I wouldn’t recommend feeding peppers or any fruits as it can mess with their gut flora, they’re ok as an occasional treat perhaps

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I have a Desert Tortoise..got him when he was 1 year old and he is now 18.. lives outside all year in a burrow that he dug…of course, I helped out initially.

You should join the Tortoise Society. They have zoom meeting every month and you can ask questions at the end.

Never feed them meat of any kind…only raw veggie, like bell peppers, romaine lettuce.(never head lettuce..it has no nutritional value) carrots slices, grapes, apples, oranges, and cactus without the stickers..

…. Also since they do not drink water from their mouth, you have to soak them in tepid water, up past their anal area..they suck up water thru there. Ha ha. Normally, in the wild…they will find a small lake, and back into to drink.

They do not swim..so never put them in water, they will drown. Desert Tortoise live in the ground only..

They are fascinating..give them a name..and soon they will come to you when you call it. They hibernate for about 6 months in the winter.

Hope that helps…

Hello!
This advice is not applicable to Leopard or Stars tortoises, for example (this were species in question). These species don't brumate and have no idea what to do with cold (real cold) strikes.

You are almost right about "raw veggies", but these should be leafy greens with good fiber/protein and Calcium/Phosphorus ratio. Grapes and apples aren't good foods even for omnivorous species (Desert tortoises, Leopards and Stars aren't fruit eaters). Citruses are even worse.

They DO drink with their mouths. But soaks are beneficial anyway.

Yet, if you advise on getting a Desert tortoise instead of African species it makes sense.

 

[Joemcdonald]

Is this the orchid bark that people suggest for the substrate. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Gubler-Orchid-Grow-Mix-Fine-Grade-4-Quart-Potting-Soil-Mix/5014006051

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Is this the orchid bark that people suggest for the substrate. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Gubler-Orchid-Grow-Mix-Fine-Grade-4-Quart-Potting-Soil-Mix/5014006051

No, this one contains perlite. You will want one that is 100% fir bark.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Is this the orchid bark that people suggest for the substrate. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Gubler-Orchid-Grow-Mix-Fine-Grade-4-Quart-Potting-Soil-Mix/5014006051

This one isn't - it's a potting mix, bark with some amendments (fertilizers, perlite and stuff). You can see them on product photos.

Pure bark is usually sold as "potting media", not "potting mix". Like this one: https://www.lowes.com/pd/BETTER-GRO-Orchid-bark-8-Quart-Organic-Potting-Soil-Mix/50284911 (however, Lowes has a confusing name for this one - label on the bag is not consistent with product name on site). If you are going to buy it online - double check, that they send you correct bag. Also, plant nurseries are worth checking for bark, like this one: https://idiggreenacres.com/products/greenall-174-microbark

 

[Joemcdonald]

Okay so for leopard tortoises you need at least 80 percent humidity, and 80 degrees. For hatchlings but what point would they not need that anymore. Because I live in San Diego and there is no way I will have close to 80 percent humidity outside.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Okay so for leopard tortoises you need at least 80 percent humidity, and 80 degrees. For hatchlings but what point would they not need that anymore. Because I live in San Diego and there is no way I will have close to 80 percent humidity outside.

Once extensive growth phase is over, humidity doesn't play that huge role. You can extend time outdoors by 1 hour with each inch of carapace length. And then move tortoise outside full time once it reaches size of 8-10 inches. This takes up to 3-4 years.

Nevertheless, outdoors you should provide shaded and planted areas with more damp soil so tortoise can escape heat and find suitable microclimates. Humidity under dense low growing foliage is higher.

 

[Tom]

Okay so for leopard tortoises you need at least 80 percent humidity, and 80 degrees. For hatchlings but what point would they not need that anymore. Because I live in San Diego and there is no way I will have close to 80 percent humidity outside.

South African leopards would THRIVE there. Your climate is ideal. Get babies from Chris and Amber at Rodriquez Chelonians. Most people do not start babies correctly and many breeders are selling mixes as "pure" SA leopards. Chris and Amber do it right.

Start your babies indoors in a large closed chamber, as described here:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

It's best to keep babies indoors most of the time, but an hour or two now and then in a secure outdoor enclosure is good too. As they grow, they can be outside more and more until they finally reach about 8-10 inches and can just live outside full time with a heated night box like the one that Alex linked for you in post #7 above. This should only take about a year or two.

Questions are welcome!

 

[Tom]

I have a Desert Tortoise..got him when he was 1 year old and he is now 18.. lives outside all year in a burrow that he dug…of course, I helped out initially.

You should join the Tortoise Society. They have zoom meeting every month and you can ask questions at the end.

Never feed them meat of any kind…only raw veggie, like bell peppers, romaine lettuce.(never head lettuce..it has no nutritional value) carrots slices, grapes, apples, oranges, and cactus without the stickers..

…. Also since they do not drink water from their mouth, you have to soak them in tepid water, up past their anal area..they suck up water thru there. Ha ha. Normally, in the wild…they will find a small lake, and back into to drink.

They do not swim..so never put them in water, they will drown. Desert Tortoise live in the ground only..

They are fascinating..give them a name..and soon they will come to you when you call it. They hibernate for about 6 months in the winter.

Hope that helps…

Hello and welcome to you. Alex already explained the errors with the info you shared, and it looks like you found one of the typical sources of incorrect info out there in the world. I'm glad you found us because now you can get the right info, and your tortoise will be healthier for it. Please read through these threads. Questions are welcome:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

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This is for desert tortoises:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

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