Pyramiding and Zohan

[irishshake]

Is this the beginning of pyramiding? It's very mild , but I must know before anything becomes to aggressive.

 

[Leopard Tortoise Lover 16199]

There appears to be very mild pyramiding on the shell. I heard that It can be a sign of vitamin deficiency, nutrition problems or not enough humidity.

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However, it is very mild and let your tortoise soak and be out in the sun and it should smooth out with time. I would ask for more opinions of people who cured pyramiding.

 

[jjsull33]

You cannot actually cure pyramiding, if you make the changes necessary for smooth growth then the new growth will come in smooth, but what is pyramided is pyramided. It has a lot to due with the humidity levels for a tortoise.

 

[Leopard Tortoise Lover 16199]

Also increase the humidity, this will help cure & prevent pyramiding.

 

[FLINTUS]

Also increase the humidity, this will help cure & prevent pyramiding.

It won't cure pyramiding, nothing can. Humidity has been shown to prevent it, however with the species in question a fully humid home would be disastrous as would case respiratory problems and shell rot, so it would be best to just restrict high humidity to one hide.

 

[Tom]

Its less than perfect, but not bad at all. Does your tortoise have a humid hide?

 

[FLINTUS]

These are the MAIN factors of pyramiding-there are many others as well:
Humidity
Hydration
Temperatures-often overlooked
Protein levels
Calcium levels
UV Exposure
Amount of food given
There are no doubt others which I have overlooked as well or just forgotten about as these are the ones which pop straight in my head. It would help if you could give some more information on the above topics in care

 

[Tom]

These are the MAIN factors of pyramiding-there are many others as well:
Humidity
Hydration
Temperatures-often overlooked
Protein levels
Calcium levels
UV Exposure
Amount of food given
There are no doubt others which I have overlooked as well or just forgotten about as these are the ones which pop straight in my head. It would help if you could give some more information on the above topics in care

I'm going to disagree with some of this list. I will grant that all of these things are often CITED as causes for pyramiding, but my experience has shown me other otherwise.

 

[FLINTUS]

These are the MAIN factors of pyramiding-there are many others as well:
Humidity
Hydration
Temperatures-often overlooked
Protein levels
Calcium levels
UV Exposure
Amount of food given
There are no doubt others which I have overlooked as well or just forgotten about as these are the ones which pop straight in my head. It would help if you could give some more information on the above topics in care

I'm going to disagree with some of this list. I will grant that all of these things are often CITED as causes for pyramiding, but my experience has shown me other otherwise.

Tom, what do you disagree with about the above? None of the factors above on their own would cause pyramiding unless it was extreme I would agree, however a combination can cause it. I'm going to hazard a guess here and say you disagree with the overeating stuff-it is my opinion that due to evidence provided by many sources, GENERALLY SPEAKING faster growing torts are more likely to be at risk of pyramiding-so perhaps maybe not a direct factor, but it does appear that pyramiding does not happen as much on slower growing torts that grow the way they have adapted to in the wild.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I don't like the "faster growing/to much food" causes pyramiding.

Example: I have 3 leopards that all hatched in April 2012.

1, I raised with high humidity and unlimited access to food. He is over 5" and 450grams. Also, very smooth.

The other 2, raised dry with limited meals/feedings and they are less than 3" and around 100grams. They have pyramiding.

My 3 show the opposite of the "faster =pyramiding".

I also don't believe that certain species (sulcata, leopards) grow slow in the wild. The bigger they get the less predators they have, so its in their best interest to grow up sooner than later. My theory is confirmed when you see the fast growth when these species are raised in conditions that mimic their natural environment. Hot and humid.

Just my opinion and witnessed experience.

To the OP, I am not familiar with your species. Its true that the shell isn't perfect but it definitely isn't bad. Review your husbandry and make sure everything is spot on. Take a look at some keepers who have raised your species and how theirs look. If you like how theirs look, as what they did to achieve that look and implement it.

Good luck. Give your cute shelled friend a pet for me

Heather
Sent from my Android TFO app

 

[FLINTUS]

I don't like the "faster growing/to much food" causes pyramiding.

Example: I have 3 leopards that all hatched in April 2012.

1, I raised with high humidity and unlimited access to food. He is over 5" and 450grams. Also, very smooth.

The other 2, raised dry with limited meals/feedings and they are less than 3" and around 100grams. They have pyramiding.

My 3 show the opposite of the "faster =pyramiding".

I also don't believe that certain species (sulcata, leopards) grow slow in the wild. The bigger they get the less predators they have, so its in their best interest to grow up sooner than later. My theory is confirmed when you see the fast growth when these species are raised in conditions that mimic their natural environment. Hot and humid.

Just my opinion and witnessed experience.

To the OP, I am not familiar with your species. Its true that the shell isn't perfect but it definitely isn't bad. Review your husbandry and make sure everything is spot on. Take a look at some keepers who have raised your species and how theirs look. If you like how theirs look, as what they did to achieve that look and implement it.

Good luck. Give your cute shelled friend a pet for me

Heather
Sent from my Android TFO app

OK, exactly what I said in my last post-pyramiding is a combination of factors. Humidity is a more important factor-however I believe if you raised both with low humidity and fed one loads it would have more pyramiding. I do agree pyramiding varies species to species-certainly for species like the OP has they would naturally have very low humidity in the wild mainly. When young yes I am sure they do have hot and humid conditions, however obviously as they get older leopards and sulcatas won't be in as humid conditions-this is another debate about the different stages of life and how humidity affects them. Humid and hot seems to be the ideal conditions for a lot of species, however that is not the climate they would have all year and through all their life.

 

[irishshake]

Haha thanks guys, sorry for late reply . Zohan is about 2.5 years old now. Im learning very quickly over the last year and a bit that indoors is not the place to keep the little guys.

He does have a tortoise table that im having trouble getting over 25-30 percent humidity outside the hide. It some times gets as low as 15 % if i do not soak the substrate that day.

I have a 55 gallon aquarium that i put substrate in to see what kind of humidity levels it created. 60-70 percent with no effort.

I kept zohan in this tank for 3 days, but it is significantly smalerl then his table and he hated it in there. He was definitely was going cage crazy.

 

[FLINTUS]

As long as he has optional humidity in a hide he will be fine. In the wild humidity would often get down to the teens. House humidity is generally around 50%, so how come you can't get it that high?

 

[irishshake]

I have been more worried about the outer area humidity rather than the hide humidity. I will keep that in mind thank you.

 

[Ansh]

I think the outer area humidity does matter. In their natural environment, tortoises spend most of their time in high humidity micro-climates (what we try to emulate within humid hides). In captivity, tortoises often don't actively seek out humid hides and spend lots of time close to the basking light. Even if the ambient room humidity is in the 50s, the humidity just under the heat source is seldom very high. Hence the need to ensure that the outside humidity in your enclosure is high AND that your tortoise is encouraged to use the humid hides.

 

[irishshake]

Interesting . I guess I will need to save some extra money to make some modifications for my tortoise table ...

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My question now would be. Is soaking him day and night a decent substitute for the time being? Also has anyone mixed calcium powder with their tortoises bath?

 

[Ansh]

I don't think soaking at night is a good idea. Although hot and humid is good for them, soaking at night, when the temps may be low is probably not good. It may predispose to respiratory infections. Tom seems to have tried very frequent spraying with good results (I'm assuming this was done at high daytime temps).

Never tried soaking in anything other than plain water. Hopefully someone with more experience will pitch in.

 

[irishshake]

Thank you again

 

[TortoiseWorld]

Hello,
it's good that your concerned about the health of your nice tortoise.
A European type of tortoise like a Hermann's has a much different environmental climate situation than a jungle tortoise like Burmese, Red Foot or Star, and so the proper care for any tortoise depends it's species.
In your case any pyramiding maybe from some of the things mentioned above like lighting, diet and supplement deficiency but for a European type tortoise I personally don't think humidity levels are as crucial as it would be for a jungle tortoise. With good light, diet, calcium and fresh water daily he should not be pyramiding. If you have the time & money you could bring him to an exotic animal vet that has experience with tortoises, get a fecal exam and blood exam.
The important thing is to not stop be concerned and stay a step ahead with proactive husbandry.

 

[jensen]

It seems to be the start make sure your tortoise gets sun and humidity