Kayti: You grind up the tablets into a powder form
Pyramiding, Despite best efforts
- Thread starter Kayti
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I used to use earth bound farms organic spring mix. Here is a link to everything they include in their mixed baby greens, with pictures. http://www.ebfarm.com/Products/Ingredients/MixedBabyGreens.aspx then next link I am posting is the spring mix ingredients http://www.ebfarm.com/Products/Ingredients/SpringMix.aspx I used to get mine at Walmart, but now they have their own brand. That doesn't have any spinach in it either.
IMO do not dose them with a multivitamin other than the product carolina pet supply has out, TNT. Human multivitamins are not formulated for animals, and you can't even use them on human children. The levels of ingredients are so high and concentrated it would be hard to dose correctly. Human beings process excess vitamins and minerals easily. They are a micronutrient that even we don't need a large amount of. Excess is excreted in our urine. But a tortoise passes uric acid, instead of urine, and I think it would be terrible strain on their kidneys to try and filter through a human being's dosage of vitamins.
I use strictly pure Ca (no d3, no phos) and feed the bulk of my diet as spring mix. I also occasionally offer squashes, a bit of carrot, and a piece of red pepper every now and again. My torts especially like radicchio so sometimes I pick up a small head of it, and add whole leaves of it to their portions. They really love the stuff. You can also rotate in kale, collard greens, and dandelion greens if you can find them. But I have had poor results with those varieties. My torts would only nibble at them, and not eat a full portion.
IMO do not dose them with a multivitamin other than the product carolina pet supply has out, TNT. Human multivitamins are not formulated for animals, and you can't even use them on human children. The levels of ingredients are so high and concentrated it would be hard to dose correctly. Human beings process excess vitamins and minerals easily. They are a micronutrient that even we don't need a large amount of. Excess is excreted in our urine. But a tortoise passes uric acid, instead of urine, and I think it would be terrible strain on their kidneys to try and filter through a human being's dosage of vitamins.
I use strictly pure Ca (no d3, no phos) and feed the bulk of my diet as spring mix. I also occasionally offer squashes, a bit of carrot, and a piece of red pepper every now and again. My torts especially like radicchio so sometimes I pick up a small head of it, and add whole leaves of it to their portions. They really love the stuff. You can also rotate in kale, collard greens, and dandelion greens if you can find them. But I have had poor results with those varieties. My torts would only nibble at them, and not eat a full portion.
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stells
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Meg90 said:
I do know that...thats why i said it needs to be researched and taken out if its in... in a previous post
S
stells
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Two of mine.... i do have more pics somewhere...
http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=27939&highlight=Hebe
http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=27939&highlight=Hebe
Kayti said:
I've been told this seed mix is a good one... http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41&products_id=162
I'm going to give it a shot, and it might be helpful for you, too. (FWIW, they also have a Sulcata mix that looks somewhat different, ingredients-wise.)
The enclosure looks great!!! =)
Floof said:
Awesome! I need to wait until next paycheck to buy anything else, (100% broke) but I'm definitely going to order some seeds when I can. My fridge has started freezing all my produce lately, so it'll be nice to not have to rely on that piece of crapola any more!
Does anyone know if grow lights adversely affect tortoises?
Also, in the course of writing this post, I have had to get up and rescue Mona from flailing around on her back FOUR times. She keeps climbing up her log hid, and falling back off. She never did this before! Why now?? Ug. How do these creatures survive in the wild?
May be time to remove the hide for awhile. Several people on the forum have had this problem, though it seems worse for hatchlings and juveniles. You probably already know that overturned tortoises will die by suffocation as their organs press on their lungs when they are on their backs. Remove the hazard, or--someone on here built up the substrate on the sides of the hide so there was nowhere to fall.
Good luck!
Good luck!
It is advisable to only use hides with vertical sides (such as boxes or plastic containers that aren't clear) for hatchlings with the flipping tendancy. A fake plant or pile of timothy hay also works great.
I have ramps built up to the sides of my little guy's log hide, but I would NOT recommend this for a hatchling with the behavior like above, unless you are home to watch. He could still have a risk of flipping. My little guy seems to have got over the worst of it so I feel safe doing this.
I have ramps built up to the sides of my little guy's log hide, but I would NOT recommend this for a hatchling with the behavior like above, unless you are home to watch. He could still have a risk of flipping. My little guy seems to have got over the worst of it so I feel safe doing this.
Ummm... how are animal/reptile vitamins formulated?
Joe is a very good salesman. I have to give him credit for that.
Vitamins are formulated based on a model... all vitamins. This is because no two organisms are the same. It's a very general formula. Centrum seems to be the most complete formula... in general. Check out Maders Reptile and Surgery...
Joe is a very good salesman. I have to give him credit for that.
Vitamins are formulated based on a model... all vitamins. This is because no two organisms are the same. It's a very general formula. Centrum seems to be the most complete formula... in general. Check out Maders Reptile and Surgery...
Meg90 said:
The mountaineering aspirations have ceased as of now, but I still piled up a good amount of cypress just in case. Good idea, thanks!
I think since I may have had an issue with overdosing them with vitamins in the past, I am not going to use a human multivitamin. Also, that just sounds like a very dangerous idea in general. I mean, centrum isn't even formulated for herbivores, let alone reptiles. If I'm going to be dosing my torts with anything, its going to be something I'm absolutely positive wont hurt them.
Oh, also: I'm thinking of mixing in a bit more moss into the cypress to help with moisture retention- is this a good/bad idea? Thanks!
I think since I may have had an issue with overdosing them with vitamins in the past, I am not going to use a human multivitamin. Also, that just sounds like a very dangerous idea in general. I mean, centrum isn't even formulated for herbivores, let alone reptiles. If I'm going to be dosing my torts with anything, its going to be something I'm absolutely positive wont hurt them.
Oh, also: I'm thinking of mixing in a bit more moss into the cypress to help with moisture retention- is this a good/bad idea? Thanks!
Do a little research.
You haven't answered the question as to how any of these vitamins are formulated.
You also raise the question as to what is the proper dosing of vitamins for any animal.
An example... I used Centrum on a gecko... which I had 29 years. The gecko was obtained as a WC adult.
You haven't answered the question as to how any of these vitamins are formulated.
You also raise the question as to what is the proper dosing of vitamins for any animal.
An example... I used Centrum on a gecko... which I had 29 years. The gecko was obtained as a WC adult.
Kayti said:
Again Ed, you say "I used it, its fine". What do you back yourself up with? I'd like to know why you use them, and how much and how often since you are so sure its OK.
I just did an entire unit on nutrition in my biology class.
Vitamins and minerals are a micronutrient. Carbohydrates etc are macronutrients. We need small amounts of micronutrients, as the name implies. Vitamins for human adults are formulated for human adults. IE they are made to deliver enough vitamins to a person weighing over 100lbs. This fact is why you cannot even give them to children....there is TOO much of a dosage in an adult multivitamin for a human child.
Reptile vitamins and minerals are formulated with them in mind. 1/16 tsp of Ca powder is a daily dose. Not one ground up Ca tablet or two, which is the recommended dose for humans.
I would never feel comfortable guessing at what amount I should give an animal. Do you use these vitamins on hatchlings too? To me, this is the same as saying that you can treat your reptiles, or tortoises at home when you need to worm them. Just take a guess at the dose, and buy some pancur online. I don't think its safe at all to mess with medications and dosages of things you don't fully understand. I like all my tortoises living, and it sounds to me, like it would be very very easy to make a mistake and kill them by giving them products made for humans.
I just did an entire unit on nutrition in my biology class.
Vitamins and minerals are a micronutrient. Carbohydrates etc are macronutrients. We need small amounts of micronutrients, as the name implies. Vitamins for human adults are formulated for human adults. IE they are made to deliver enough vitamins to a person weighing over 100lbs. This fact is why you cannot even give them to children....there is TOO much of a dosage in an adult multivitamin for a human child.
Reptile vitamins and minerals are formulated with them in mind. 1/16 tsp of Ca powder is a daily dose. Not one ground up Ca tablet or two, which is the recommended dose for humans.
I would never feel comfortable guessing at what amount I should give an animal. Do you use these vitamins on hatchlings too? To me, this is the same as saying that you can treat your reptiles, or tortoises at home when you need to worm them. Just take a guess at the dose, and buy some pancur online. I don't think its safe at all to mess with medications and dosages of things you don't fully understand. I like all my tortoises living, and it sounds to me, like it would be very very easy to make a mistake and kill them by giving them products made for humans.
Do you know how reptile vitamins are formulated?
On the geckos I dusted the crickets. On the tortoises I used a salt shaker and lightly dusted their food when I did use supplements.
Do you have a concept of how dosages are determined?
Because all individuals are different the dosage has to be enough to cover all individuals yet not be leathal. That is a huge range.
You might not feel comfortable but I don't have a problem at all... based on experience and research.
Before using the vitamins I recommend I did extensive research and my experience using that vitamin makes me very comfortable recommending the product. There is no way I'm going to recommend a product or practice if there was the slightest chance that it would do harm to another persons animal.
Now... if the person is stupid enough to give a 600mg tablet to a 50 gram animal... the person deserves to have the animal die.
On the geckos I dusted the crickets. On the tortoises I used a salt shaker and lightly dusted their food when I did use supplements.
Do you have a concept of how dosages are determined?
Because all individuals are different the dosage has to be enough to cover all individuals yet not be leathal. That is a huge range.
You might not feel comfortable but I don't have a problem at all... based on experience and research.
Before using the vitamins I recommend I did extensive research and my experience using that vitamin makes me very comfortable recommending the product. There is no way I'm going to recommend a product or practice if there was the slightest chance that it would do harm to another persons animal.
Now... if the person is stupid enough to give a 600mg tablet to a 50 gram animal... the person deserves to have the animal die.
Meg90 said:
EJ, you said that Mazuri is a complete formula, but you recommend adding human vitamins?
But you've also said you feed only Mazuri.
So how do you have 20 years experience or whatever feeding human vitamins to torts? Or do you not follow the advice you are dispensing?
But you've also said you feed only Mazuri.
So how do you have 20 years experience or whatever feeding human vitamins to torts? Or do you not follow the advice you are dispensing?
The research I've done is through reading and interviews.
If you would like to verify any of my comments... you pretty much have to do your own research and then counter any of my claims.
I did give you one of the main references and the questions I asked you were incentive to look into specific areas.
If you would like to verify any of my comments... you pretty much have to do your own research and then counter any of my claims.
I did give you one of the main references and the questions I asked you were incentive to look into specific areas.
Meg90 said:
-EJ said:
But, see...that's just the problem. You say that you use Centrum Silver without causing problems to your animals. But the majority of people who read that statement haven't a clue what you're talking about. Oh, Ed uses Centrum Silver. So I guess I can poke a tablet down my tortoise's throat.
If you are going to tell fairly new tortoise-keepers what you do for your tortoises, then you also need to have some sort of caution or instruction as to how you do it. For instance, "I grind up the Centrum Silver tablets and put the dust in a shaker bottle. Then I just lightly dust the tortoise's food."
You have tons of tortoise experience, and what you do for your tortoises, you take for granted. But some of us need to be led by the hand a little bit.
For those who have not read through this post entirely...
I DO NOT supplement outside of Calcium carbonate when using Mazuri. There is no need to which has been pointed out throughout this discussion.
If you are using a green diet... I recommend the use of Centrum Silver or Centrum if the tortoise has access to UVB.
I used the Centrum on other reptiles over the 30+years of keeping herps. I used it on the tortoises until I started using Mazuri.
Another point... I do dispense advice based on the experience of other keepers as well.
If a person does that then the person deserves to loose the animal. The animal does not deserve to die but with such a stupid act the person has probably killed the animal long before supplementation comes into play.
You did notice that I did mention a dosage.
When I'm writing I do just as you mention. When I'm having a discussion on the net. I answer the question I'm asked. If the newbe has a question... there's always an answer. If they are stupid enough to jump to that conclusion... they pay the price.
I DO NOT supplement outside of Calcium carbonate when using Mazuri. There is no need to which has been pointed out throughout this discussion.
If you are using a green diet... I recommend the use of Centrum Silver or Centrum if the tortoise has access to UVB.
I used the Centrum on other reptiles over the 30+years of keeping herps. I used it on the tortoises until I started using Mazuri.
Another point... I do dispense advice based on the experience of other keepers as well.
Kayti said:
If a person does that then the person deserves to loose the animal. The animal does not deserve to die but with such a stupid act the person has probably killed the animal long before supplementation comes into play.
You did notice that I did mention a dosage.
When I'm writing I do just as you mention. When I'm having a discussion on the net. I answer the question I'm asked. If the newbe has a question... there's always an answer. If they are stupid enough to jump to that conclusion... they pay the price.
emysemys said:
Well, Kayti...we've gotten way off track and we've all hi-jacked your thread. Have you been able to get any helpful information out of all the debate? Something to help you with your pyramiding question?
I apologize for hi-jacking your thread. There are strong feelings about this subject. But I hope you were able to get something that will help you with your little guys.
I apologize for hi-jacking your thread. There are strong feelings about this subject. But I hope you were able to get something that will help you with your little guys.
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