Radiated Hatchling expected grow

Chip0282

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How much growth (weight percentage increase), or size increase expected for radiated tortoise ?

When we say they thrive , how much weight gained increase every month ?

I had 2 inch and 3 inch radiated Tortoise, and want to know if they are in a good progress rate or not.

Thanks
 

TeamZissou

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Here's a growth chart by @deadheadvet who breeds some great Radiateds

 

Chip0282

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Here's a growth chart by @deadheadvet who breeds some great Radiateds

He started from 320gr. My smallest only 37gr. I want to know at that stage, normal grow will be about how many per week / 2 weeks
 

Markw84

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He started from 320gr. My smallest only 37gr. I want to know at that stage, normal grow will be about how many per week / 2 weeks
I can share what I expect from baby Burmese Stars who seem to grow at similar rates to Radiated the first several years.

Here's the growth of most of my 2019 G platynota hatchlings their first 18 months. Many were sold - so their graphs end earlier. But I held back enough of them to show growth the whole 18 months. You can see that they were the size of Evan's A radiata by approximately 14 months on average.

This should give you a very good idea of what I would consider good growth ranges for hatchlings like these.

2019 Platy Hatchling growth.jpg
 

TeamZissou

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Thanks @Markw84 , now I realized my smallest growth is not good. I'll pay more attention to it.

Sorry, I did not get that from your original post.

Any chance two are being housed together? This is often a cause for one growing more slowly, stress due to bullying by the more dominant tortoise.
 

Chip0282

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Sorry, I did not get that from your original post.

Any chance two are being housed together? This is often a cause for one growing more slowly, stress due to bullying by the more dominant tortoise.
It's 3 of them housed together at close chamber but not same age. They middle come from different breeder , left and right from same breeder, but I'm having difficult to confirm whether they are on same clutch or not. If they are born together, there must be something wrong with the smallest one.
 

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Chip0282

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Can please see the table of weight below, and tell me, is it normal or not ?


DateMiddle (gram)AVG (gr/day)% per weekRight (gram)AVG (gr/day)% per weekLeft (gram)AVG (gr/day)% per week
14-Mar-21​
142​
0,39
2%​
92​
1,21
15%​
35​
0,21
5%​
2-Apr-21​
154​
0,63
3%​
105​
0,68
5%​
37​
0,11
2%​
18-Apr-21​
158​
0,25
1%​
116​
0,69
5%​
37​
-
0%​
7-May-21​
174​
0,84
4%​
137​
1,11
7%​
40​
0,16
3%​

My observation see no bullying, but im a newbie. Some time i just see one of them sit in the middle of food, make others hard to eat, but nothing more. Most of the time after eating, middle radiated and right radiated will go to hiding cave (sometimes at the same hiding cave). I provide 3 hiding cave for them. The smallest radiated didnt sleep inside hiding cave, just slept everywhere (its strange looks like he didnt have favorite place to sleep). Smallest radi eat slowly but long time, the other two just quick eat then go to sleep. Do you thing i need to worry, or its already in a good track ?

Thanks
 

TeamZissou

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The size difference between ~150 g and 40 g seem significant.

I would separate the smaller one for a month or more and see if things improve. Supposedly Radiated can be very sensitive to changes in environment and will go on long hunger strikes when moved to a new enclosure, so it would be better to remove the two larger tortoises so that the small is in the same familiar environment and can relax.
 

Markw84

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Can please see the table of weight below, and tell me, is it normal or not ?


DateMiddle (gram)AVG (gr/day)% per weekRight (gram)AVG (gr/day)% per weekLeft (gram)AVG (gr/day)% per week
14-Mar-21​
142​
0,39
2%​
92​
1,21
15%​
35​
0,21
5%​
2-Apr-21​
154​
0,63
3%​
105​
0,68
5%​
37​
0,11
2%​
18-Apr-21​
158​
0,25
1%​
116​
0,69
5%​
37​
-
0%​
7-May-21​
174​
0,84
4%​
137​
1,11
7%​
40​
0,16
3%​

My observation see no bullying, but im a newbie. Some time i just see one of them sit in the middle of food, make others hard to eat, but nothing more. Most of the time after eating, middle radiated and right radiated will go to hiding cave (sometimes at the same hiding cave). I provide 3 hiding cave for them. The smallest radiated didnt sleep inside hiding cave, just slept everywhere (its strange looks like he didnt have favorite place to sleep). Smallest radi eat slowly but long time, the other two just quick eat then go to sleep. Do you thing i need to worry, or its already in a good track ?

Thanks
I would be concerned and continue to watch progress closely. However, none of them are growing at a rate I like to see. I like to see 10% - 20% per month at that size.

From what I get from your post, you have only had them 2 months now? IF that is the case, then certainly a change could easily result in slow growth for several months. New location, new foods result in a need to develop a new balance to the microbiome in the gut. Change is also very stressful.

I would also recommend putting some live plants in the enclosure. Some pothos ivy with trailing runners that give a nice natural hide for your tortoises. I find baby tortoises do amazingly better when they have a natural hide and the feeling of security hiding in plants gives them. In nature they would never be found in an open, barren area with no plant cover. I believe low-grade stress is one of the primary reasons for slow/no growth.

@Sterant do you have any input on what the OP is seeing with growth here?
 

Chip0282

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I would be concerned and continue to watch progress closely. However, none of them are growing at a rate I like to see. I like to see 10% - 20% per month at that size.

From what I get from your post, you have only had them 2 months now? IF that is the case, then certainly a change could easily result in slow growth for several months. New location, new foods result in a need to develop a new balance to the microbiome in the gut. Change is also very stressful.

I would also recommend putting some live plants in the enclosure. Some pothos ivy with trailing runners that give a nice natural hide for your tortoises. I find baby tortoises do amazingly better when they have a natural hide and the feeling of security hiding in plants gives them. In nature they would never be found in an open, barren area with no plant cover. I believe low-grade stress is one of the primary reasons for slow/no growth.

@Sterant do you have any input on what the OP is seeing with growth here?
Actually 3 months, but yes Mid-April i moved them to closed chamber (after reading plenty information from this forum, and the vital need of humidity for hatchling) maybe they are still in stress. To add plant is hard here because i cant find orchid bark like suggested at forum, and all forest bark are using pine wood here. the only substrate that can hold humidity is coconut chip, havent try top soil + plant, but if i change it again, will they be more stress because continue change of environtment ? of maybe just add potted plant.
 

Markw84

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Actually 3 months, but yes Mid-April i moved them to closed chamber (after reading plenty information from this forum, and the vital need of humidity for hatchling) maybe they are still in stress. To add plant is hard here because i cant find orchid bark like suggested at forum, and all forest bark are using pine wood here. the only substrate that can hold humidity is coconut chip, havent try top soil + plant, but if i change it again, will they be more stress because continue change of environtment ? of maybe just add potted plant.
Adding plants is very easy. I grow the plants in terracotta pots and simply place the pot in the enclosure letting the plant grow down over the sides. Doesn't matter what type of substrate.

Here is an enclosure with 2 potted plants;

IMG_1172.jpg
 

Chip0282

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Adding plants is very easy. I grow the plants in terracotta pots and simply place the pot in the enclosure letting the plant grow down over the sides. Doesn't matter what type of substrate.

Here is an enclosure with 2 potted plants;

View attachment 324698
So nice, what kind of plant si the green one?
In the left is coleus ?

I'll try set up the plant. What the plant needed ? Because I'm soaking everyday 10-15 minutes under sun, I'm not turning uvb lamp on. With plants do I need to turn uvb on ?
 

William Lee Kohler

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I'd agree please give the little one his own domain and with excellent care see if it doesn't take off and catch up with the others. The plants in that set up are pothos. Put them in flower pots so they don't get up rooted by the critters and use potting mix with no pumice, vermiculite or similar unhealthy things for a tortoise to eat.
 

Chip0282

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thanks for the advice, if the little one separated, so there will be 2 radiated at 1 enclosure, and i see Tom everytime said that 2 tortoise at 1 enclosure should be avoided. I add photos already at enclosure as adviced, but i tried to insert my head at the enclosure and the photos smell really strong, its like very plant smell, and i saw some photos leaf bitten , i hope they wont eat all the leaf because photos also like debatable topics, some said not good, some said no problem.
 

Sterant

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Moving them from a dry situation to a humid closed chamber can interrupt their normal cycle for weeks. That being said, I have experienced dramatically different growth rates even with animals kept in the same enclosure. Generally, for hatchlings and young animals, if you are seeing 10% - 20% + weight increase per month, I would say thats fine. It can be much more than that, but for a 50g radiated tortoise to gain 5 or 10g in a month is fine. I have an 8 year old that weighs 38 pounds, so plot that out! ;-) I have a tortoise that hatched exactly a month ago, and one that hatched today. The 1-month old is 50g, the hatchling is 25g, so thats 50%.
 
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