Rammus and new friend

[Cowboy_Ken]

My friend they will also compete for the best spot for good light, the best spot for good heat, the best spot for everything they require.

 

[trinhtbv5]

My friend they will also compete for the best spot for good light, the best spot for good heat, the best spot for everything they require.

thanks alot for your advice, i'll keep my eyes on them

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aggressive advice

You are welcome. Between you and I, I don't always offer advice in that manner....only sometimes.....have a great day......

http://www.chelonia.org/articles/russiantortoisecombat.htm

This is just for reference....this is also a species that is similar in nature ....just not in size....again, have a great day.

i have read through this article ,i know you care about tortoise so you offer that advice to me to make me serious about keeping sulcatas together, thanks ^^ have a great day too

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Here is my “Little Ricky". He is about 18 months old, maybe a little older. I have raised him following Toms recommendations and I think he looks beautiful.

 

[trinhtbv5]

Here is my “Little Ricky". He is about 18 months old, maybe a little older. I have raised him following Toms recommendations and I think he looks beautiful.

stunning!! he looks so beautiful!!, hope that my rammus and the little one can look like yours i bet that he is use to be a very beautiful hatchling, and now even more cute haha look at his face can see the grass on his tongue

 

[Ashes]

They're all beautiful! I can't wait to see mine grow!!

 

[MsBijou]

A little hasty I agree. These are tiny little hatchlings. The OP has time to make arrangements for separation. A simple advisory notice about Sulcata pairs would be sufficient.
So OP, yes, your babies are absolutely beautiful and the new growth on the one looks great, but head the warnings, even the hasty ones, that separation of these animals is imperative to their health. I do not own sulcatas. Some day I hope to and if I'm lucky, some as beautiful as yours, but I have read over and over again that these animals must be kept alone or in groups, and if kept in groups, must have A LOT of space. Keep us updated, they are beautiful.


Elohi🌎(Earth)[TURTLE]

thanks alot, i will keep update on them ^^

Yes breeders keep more than one together. Keeping 1 is great, keeping 6 or more together I'm sure works out fine when they are young, but keeping 2...terrible idea. It is hard to understand but maybe easier this way. If a bully only has ONE othe tortoise to bully, it will be very bad for the one that is being bullied. If a bully has 5 others to bully, he spreads out his aggression and it's too hard to keep focus on one same victim. That is why larger groups work much better than just 2.


Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk

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Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk

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thanks for this advice, because i may buy more, but not 4 more haha i understand this because i have a cichlid tank of 430G which have 28 blue dolphin

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Ha! Then you DO know exactly what we are all talking about. I do trust that you will be able to see when (not if) the problems start.

I think a lot of people here, including me, were upset after seeing what happened to that poor little Russian tort's leg. I'm glad the poster took the time to post that so we can all learn from it and not make the same mistake. It takes a lot of guts to admit that you made a big mistake like that.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

I remember when he was just a
“wee lad"

 

[AmRoKo]

Beautiful babies!

 

[trinhtbv5]

A little hasty I agree. These are tiny little hatchlings. The OP has time to make arrangements for separation. A simple advisory notice about Sulcata pairs would be sufficient.
So OP, yes, your babies are absolutely beautiful and the new growth on the one looks great, but head the warnings, even the hasty ones, that separation of these animals is imperative to their health. I do not own sulcatas. Some day I hope to and if I'm lucky, some as beautiful as yours, but I have read over and over again that these animals must be kept alone or in groups, and if kept in groups, must have A LOT of space. Keep us updated, they are beautiful.

Elohi🌎(Earth)[TURTLE]

thanks alot, i will keep update on them ^^

Yes breeders keep more than one together. Keeping 1 is great, keeping 6 or more together I'm sure works out fine when they are young, but keeping 2...terrible idea. It is hard to understand but maybe easier this way. If a bully only has ONE othe tortoise to bully, it will be very bad for the one that is being bullied. If a bully has 5 others to bully, he spreads out his aggression and it's too hard to keep focus on one same victim. That is why larger groups work much better than just 2.


Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk

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Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk

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thanks for this advice, because i may buy more, but not 4 more haha i understand this because i have a cichlid tank of 430G which have 28 blue dolphin

---

Ha! Then you DO know exactly what we are all talking about. I do trust that you will be able to see when (not if) the problems start.

I think a lot of people here, including me, were upset after seeing what happened to that poor little Russian tort's leg. I'm glad the poster took the time to post that so we can all learn from it and not make the same mistake. It takes a lot of guts to admit that you made a big mistake like that.

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haha thanks, TOm said that it works when i have 3 or more !! so i decided to have 1 more ^^ i will update later when summer comes

I remember when he was just a
“wee lad"
haha he's look so good !! so smooth and now still smooth ^^

Beautiful babies!

Thank you !!

 

[boris'mommy]

No it is not your fault because of your bad English, it is your fault because you came onto this forum to learn from experienced owners, you have even stated that you are completely open to taking their advice, Yet you don't seem to have your ears open. This is your first sulcata, what everyone is trying to say is simple. You are not an expert on this species, you are a newbie. So listen to the experienced owner, and take careful notes like you said you would instead of ignoring them.

Yea i heard that, but i want to keep them together, i will keep looking on them

So, I tried really hard to not comment here---I went away and then was compelled to come back...I am going to attempt to not sound crappy about this....

The statement you make here is 100% that of a person who acknowledges that they know what they have done is not a good idea, right; "Yea i heard that,"

Then goes on essentially to say that they don't care about the negative issues that are awaiting one of the tortoise regardless to what they have heard-- they are going to do what THEY want to, like right here;
"but i want to keep them together"

And my most favorite line of all times, you ready for it,;
"i will keep looking on them"

What exactly is it that you think you are going to see when looking in on them??? One walking up and smacking the other, one walking up and kicking the other?? One walking up and giving stink eye??? What exactly are you thinking you are going to see??? When bullying goes on --it happens over a long period of time...one tortoise will ALWAYS have to submit to the other----and this is unnatural when kept in a captive environment....one tortoise will get ill from this situation...period. Now, perhaps you will be someone who has two tortoise that will not submit to one another---well, then you will have serious physical injuries that will happen, serious injury--as Ken shared in the photo---it does not happen over night, but it happens.

Please also understand that the species of tortoise you are dealing with are a more assertive, tenacious and aggressive one...naturally dominant--so to force one to submit is so very unfair, simply so you can have what you want.....wow.

haha sorry for my bad english, i write that not because i don't care, if i don't care i don't have another cage ready for 1 more i even can feed them divide to small amount many times a day, bring them out for sunlight, i care for them. just because i saw people growing sulcata together, so why can't i do it? i said that ill look after them, after their behavior to make sure that no bullying appear or they both gets food and they not fighting, if it occurs i will move them seperate immediately, i think you should control your temp, anyway is my fault because of my bad english due to the bad expression so sorry

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You have such gorgeous specimen of this species I would hate to see anything happen to them because people were hard on you enough you know? I have a friend who lost one of his hatchlings to malnourishment from keeping two together. I apologize for being 'hasty' with my reply, honestly I didn't even read the second page before commenting this, but this bullying situations just terrify me to my core.

No it is not your fault because of your bad English, it is your fault because you came onto this forum to learn from experienced owners, you have even stated that you are completely open to taking their advice, Yet you don't seem to have your ears open. This is your first sulcata, what everyone is trying to say is simple. You are not an expert on this species, you are a newbie. So listen to the experienced owner, and take careful notes like you said you would instead of ignoring them.

Yea i heard that, but i want to keep them together, i will keep looking on them

So, I tried really hard to not comment here---I went away and then was compelled to come back...I am going to attempt to not sound crappy about this....

The statement you make here is 100% that of a person who acknowledges that they know what they have done is not a good idea, right; "Yea i heard that,"

Then goes on essentially to say that they don't care about the negative issues that are awaiting one of the tortoise regardless to what they have heard-- they are going to do what THEY want to, like right here;
"but i want to keep them together"

And my most favorite line of all times, you ready for it,;
"i will keep looking on them"

What exactly is it that you think you are going to see when looking in on them??? One walking up and smacking the other, one walking up and kicking the other?? One walking up and giving stink eye??? What exactly are you thinking you are going to see??? When bullying goes on --it happens over a long period of time...one tortoise will ALWAYS have to submit to the other----and this is unnatural when kept in a captive environment....one tortoise will get ill from this situation...period. Now, perhaps you will be someone who has two tortoise that will not submit to one another---well, then you will have serious physical injuries that will happen, serious injury--as Ken shared in the photo---it does not happen over night, but it happens.

Please also understand that the species of tortoise you are dealing with are a more assertive, tenacious and aggressive one...naturally dominant--so to force one to submit is so very unfair, simply so you can have what you want.....wow.

haha sorry for my bad english, i write that not because i don't care, if i don't care i don't have another cage ready for 1 more i even can feed them divide to small amount many times a day, bring them out for sunlight, i care for them. just because i saw people growing sulcata together, so why can't i do it? i said that ill look after them, after their behavior to make sure that no bullying appear or they both gets food and they not fighting, if it occurs i will move them seperate immediately, i think you should control your temp, anyway is my fault because of my bad english due to the bad expression so sorry

 

[milkandsam]

Many people on this forum have great intentions... I have little experience and I only have one lil tort but I've seen so many posts about bullying that I realize that humans can't see it a lot of times, we don't read tort language very well because it's not like our body language!
Your babies are absolutely gorgeous!!!
With that being said... ascott has gotten on my case before with things I should change... and I didn't take the advice right away, I looked around the forum and saw situation a where my one little mistake that I didnt want to change resulted in death or lost feet. So in thw end i did take the advice! Its good advice!!! And there will always be people who don't want to believe bullying happens... just don't be one of them!

My advice would be to plan on getting a 3rd soon! (I always like adding new torts!!!!!)

Regardless, enjoy your precious babies and give them lots of hugs! Everyone wants them to grow up nice and happy and healthy!!

 

[RuthJanice]

All of these babies are so beautiful and precious. They are certainly at our mercy as their caretakers.

Cowboy Ken -- Little Ricky is beautiful.

 

[Tom]

I read and then re-read this entire thread. I read Angela's post number 8 three times. I fail to see any attack or inappropriate comments. I agree with the whole post word for word. She is expressing a frustration and sentiment that has been gnawing on me since my early pet store days back in the 80's. The person with the two red foots (not Russians) that watched one eat the others foot for 6 weeks and did nothing after being told they needed to be separated is a perfect example. Angela also phrased it and illustrated it better than me.

MsBijou offers a great explanation too.

This is a problem and some people just seem to not be able to understand it. The mere presence of the other tortoise is enough to cause stress. There does not have to be overt bullying. When you walk down a street at night in the wrong neighborhood and you notice some unsavory character walking behind you, doesn't it cause you stress? What if that stranger followed you home, watched you eat, followed you around your house, but never said a word or touched you? Is that an environment you'd like to live in all day everyday? Wouldn't you feel better in a crowd? When there is a group of tortoises it creates a whole different behavioral dynamic than a pair. Also, most groups are housed in some pretty large enclosures. They don't WANT to be together. They want their own space and they want to get out of the other one's space.

I totally get it if someone wants more than one. I sure do. But house them in a way that is known to work for many people all over the world. My frustration comes from the fact that so many people need to learn that a square wheel doesn't roll as easily as a round one. It would be so much better for the animals if after 10 people agreed on the same thing, and told you they know this because they have made that mistake before and seen others make it, they could listen and not have to make the same mistake and learn for themselves. For me that is the whole point of this forum, or any forum for that matter. When I wanted to breed Blue Tongue Skinks, I didn't fumble around in the dark as if I'm the first person to ever attempt it. I asked someone who had been doing it successfully for years, and took their advice about what to do and not do, how to do it, what to look out for, etc. It made things so much easier, and better for the animals.

Sounds like our OP will be improving this situation with a third tortoise, so in this case the point will soon be moot, but having the most basic of advice ignored time after time is frustrating for anyone.

 

[ascott]

Hey Tom, you spoke like a drop of water on a piece of glass....perfect

I do have one thing that has been haunting me....I see that you now have 2 sulcata tortoise correct? Then you say your intention is to obtain 4, or so....do you have a large large large piece of property and a great deal of "fence money" at hand? Yes, right at this moment the torts are small and "cute"...but what happens when the 2 you have now+ the 4? you said you want to add (or if not add, want to end up with 4) are all grown...are all bumping round and needing individual enclosures (could happen, when they are young there is no way to know what sex you are dealing with) are you set up to do that?

This is not a species, once grown, should ever have to exist on a porch or patio sized space, especially multiple ones....this is an animal that will likely outlive a human, if correct husbandry is in place....and to think that they will not have adequate space make my stomach turn....do you have an "end plan"? and do you have the proper space?

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Tom, time to post pictures again of what you currently have and have set up…

 

[trinhtbv5]

I want to say sorry for all, so even they have not fighting no sign of attack or bullying after 2 days, i read these comments today i decided to move one to another cage and of course im not going to buy a third one, i will keep update on them ^^ thanks everyone and any ideas on the substrate that can keep moisture and not going to have any small bugs born inside? im using cocopeat but after a month it has small black bugs but im not sure which type, add to this, i clean the water dish everyday, food dish everyday, remove poops and food not eaten in the cage every day too !

 

[Tom]

Well that is good news. I think they will both be happier and healthier that way.

A pic, or some more description of your "bugs" will help us ID them for you. If they are one of the normal species of "substrate flies", then you don't need to do anything as they are harmless. If it is something else, boiling, baking or replacing the substrate will at least temporarily reduce your problem.

 

[trinhtbv5]

i will try to take a pic, they quite fast, but don't worry, i boil the substrate today tomorrow i will move the smaller to another cage, but there is 1 thing @@ when the new one first come home, he's only 42g but today it is 50g, maybe because he is good at eating but any danger ? it sounds strange to me so... i feed them likes 3-4 times a day