Re: Substrate

Nessa

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I know this has been discussed numerous times on this forum, but I just want to go through options again with what I already have for my torts. They are not laying on any substrate at the moment. They have a heating pad and that’s about it. What would you guys recommend for substrate for this house that I have built. Thanks in advanced everyone for always being so helpful.
 

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Maro2Bear

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Kind of hard to tell what you have there, but a bag of cypress mulch works well. Cheap, easy to put down, doesnt rot, but retains moisture. Usually available at most big box stores or garden centers.
 

dmmj

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Heating pads are not ideal( tortoises need heat from above since that is where the blood vessels are) and can be dangerous ( burning hazard).
 

Nessa

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Heating pads are not ideal( tortoises need heat from above since that is where the blood vessels are) and can be dangerous ( burning hazard).

I have a automatic shut off system when it reaches a certain temp. Also have a ceramic heater on the top with the same system. They pretty much get heat from top and bottom as the floor can get fairly cold. What is everyone’s take on Timothy hay from bedding? I used it before but it tends to dry everything out and humidity is practically at 3% so I stopped using that. I’ll look into cypress mulch. Thanks
 

jaizei

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What kind of heating pad? Most heating pad are not meant to be used with substrate.
 

Nessa

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What kind of heating pad? Most heating pad are not meant to be used with substrate.

It’s a reptitherm habitat heater. Would I be better if I take out the heating pad if put in substrate. From what I remember, on the box, it said not to lay anything over it. Hence, no substrate. Should I just lay substrate and remove the heating pad? Or stay with what I have? I would like them to be able to dig just to try to make it as natural for them as possible.
 

Maro2Bear

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I have a automatic shut off system when it reaches a certain temp. Also have a ceramic heater on the top with the same system. They pretty much get heat from top and bottom as the floor can get fairly cold. What is everyone’s take on Timothy hay from bedding? I used it before but it tends to dry everything out and humidity is practically at 3% so I stopped using that. I’ll look into cypress mulch. Thanks

Timothy hay isnt a good choice for a substrate. Once it gets wet, it will easily mold and mildew.

Cypress mulch, orchid bark or coco coir are all better choices.
 

Yvonne G

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It’s a reptitherm habitat heater. Would I be better if I take out the heating pad if put in substrate. From what I remember, on the box, it said not to lay anything over it. Hence, no substrate. Should I just lay substrate and remove the heating pad? Or stay with what I have? I would like them to be able to dig just to try to make it as natural for them as possible.
You can mount the heating pad low on the wall instead of on the floor. The tortoise won't get as much benefit from it, but it will still heat up the space.

I've never understood the "no substrate on the pad" thing. I use Stansfield pig blankets. They have a warning on the paperwork that comes with the pad to not put anything on the pad (substrate). They were originally manufactured for mama pig and her little baby piglets. So if we're not supposed to put substrate over the pad, how is it ok for a great big pig to lay on it with all her little babies? To me, this does not compute.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you have a larger tortoise underneath that tort table and you want to put substrate in that cubby hole for the tortoise? If that's the case, I'd mount the heating pad on the side wall and use cypress mulch on the floor.
 

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Definitely not Timothy hay as it can catch fire.
 

Gijoux

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You can mount the heating pad low on the wall instead of on the floor. The tortoise won't get as much benefit from it, but it will still heat up the space.

I've never understood the "no substrate on the pad" thing. I use Stansfield pig blankets. They have a warning on the paperwork that comes with the pad to not put anything on the pad (substrate). They were originally manufactured for mama pig and her little baby piglets. So if we're not supposed to put substrate over the pad, how is it ok for a great big pig to lay on it with all her little babies? To me, this does not compute.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you have a larger tortoise underneath that tort table and you want to put substrate in that cubby hole for the tortoise? If that's the case, I'd mount the heating pad on the side wall and use cypress mulch on the floor.

I felt the same way about "why not have substrate" if a big ole pig could lay on it". Well, I eventually found out why not, besides the fire risk. I used orchid bark about 2-3 inches deep. Well when winter was over and I went to remove my heat mats, I found substrate had gotten under the mat front and back, and my heat mats were now no longer flat. They were all bent into U shapes. What a costly mistake. When my tortoises were smaller it was never a problem, but once they were over 10 lbs they easily deformed my mats. New mats this year!!
 

Maro2Bear

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I’m with @Yvonne G on this one. Now, I don’t cover our Sully’s Kane mat with cypress mulch, but I don’t keep it spotless. I have a few inches of mulch on one side and during the daily crawling about process, mulch gets dragged up onto the mat. The mulch is never hot to the touch, etc. The mulch helps keep things clean, sops up liquids/wastes, etc.
 

Tom

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I know this has been discussed numerous times on this forum, but I just want to go through options again with what I already have for my torts. They are not laying on any substrate at the moment. They have a heating pad and that’s about it. What would you guys recommend for substrate for this house that I have built. Thanks in advanced everyone for always being so helpful.
I wouldn't use substrate for a housing situation like that. I also wouldn't make a housing situation like that.

You live in one of the best climates ever for tortoises. Make a heated outdoor box for your tortoise and let it live outside in a large enclosure. There are multiple ways to do it. Here are two:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/what-youll-need-to-build-a-night-box.171435/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/h...g-of-toms-night-box-with-exploded-view.97697/
 

Tom

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I've never understood the "no substrate on the pad" thing. I use Stansfield pig blankets. They have a warning on the paperwork that comes with the pad to not put anything on the pad (substrate). They were originally manufactured for mama pig and her little baby piglets. So if we're not supposed to put substrate over the pad, how is it ok for a great big pig to lay on it with all her little babies? To me, this does not compute.
Three reasons why its safe for a pig and piglets, but not safe for substrate:
  1. Pigs have a circulatory system. As the pad generates heat and the pigs absorb it, their blood takes that heat and moves it around their body, thus preventing the collection and build up of too much heat, much like the radiator on a car.
  2. The pigs fidget, shift, roll over and move a lot, thus preventing too much heat from building up.
  3. If it gets too hot, the pig will move.
By contrast, substate like hay or bark mulch will contain the heat and allow it to build up to unsafe levels if there is not a built in thermostat like on the Kane mats now. The substrate doesn't not disperse the heat. Instead it traps it and contains it, and its flammable.
 

dmmj

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You learn something new every day, at least I do.
 

Nessa

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Hi everyone, update. Sorry it has taken me a while to update you all. I have been doing the cypress mulch. Everything has been going well, however, I just recently purchased 3 bags of Fluker’s cypress mulch. When I poured the first bag on the floor, I noticed and there were thick pieces and some on the edges are sharp. I get anxiety about my animals getting hurt. Is this something to be concerned about with two 60 lb tortoises? Or am I overreacting as usual?
 

Maro2Bear

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Hi everyone, update. Sorry it has taken me a while to update you all. I have been doing the cypress mulch. Everything has been going well, however, I just recently purchased 3 bags of Fluker’s cypress mulch. When I poured the first bag on the floor, I noticed and there were thick pieces and some on the edges are sharp. I get anxiety about my animals getting hurt. Is this something to be concerned about with two 60 lb tortoises? Or am I overreacting as usual?

I think you are over reacting a bit... you could always take your mulch and put it into a 5 gallon bucket, give it a good soaking, dump the water out then appky. The soak will soften it all up a bit. 60 lb tort can prob handle a few hard pieces of mulch.

Good luck - relax
 

Nessa

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Hi everyone, update. Sorry it has taken me a while to update you all. I have been doing the cypress mulch. Everything has been going well, however, I just recently purchased 3 bags of Fluker’s cypress mulch. When I poured the first bag on the floor, I noticed and there were thick pieces and some on the edges are sharp. I get anxiety about my animals getting hurt. Is this something to be concerned about with two 60 lb tortoises? Or am I overreacting as usual?

IMG_5667.jpg
 

Blackdog1714

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As long as it is real wood and not thin strips of plywood you should be good. Sorta of a Rock/Scissors/paper with the tortoise as the scissors. No cement or hard pavers and just wood! You are doing great!
 

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