Setting up for a Russian Tortoise - Constructive comments welcome

[David Steere]

@Alex and the Redfoot @wellington @Yvonne G @Tom

Is there anything negative about handling a Tortoise to much?

For instance a number of times a day I have some time and go and check on Sandy. I pick Sandy up, place Sandy by the food dish, watch Sandy eat than walk back to the basking area or behind a pot and I got my fix so I continue with my day. This made me think if I was being a bad Tortoise keeper.

Question. Will Sandy get use to this and not go to the food dish? Get lazy? Does this stress Sandy out by interfering with Sandy's day to day activity?

Sorry for the silly question.

 

[wellington]

You will get different answers on this.
I have always handled my tortoises way more then you mentioned you do and mine have never had any negative affects, only positive. My tortoises will walk up to me. They will let me rub their heads, legs, feed them, etc. I always said it's a good thing. If my tortoises ever had to go to a vet, they likely would not just hide in their shell
My Russian isn't as friendly as my leopards, but a lot better from when I first rescued him.
So handle away and even more than you are. Just be sure to support their legs. They don't like their legs dangling so much.

 

[David Steere]

You will get different answers on this.
I have always handled my tortoises way more then you mentioned you do and mine have never had any negative affects, only positive. My tortoises will walk up to me. They will let me rub their heads, legs, feed them, etc. I always said it's a good thing. If my tortoises ever had to go to a vet, they likely would not just hide in their shell
My Russian isn't as friendly as my leopards, but a lot better from when I first rescued him.
So handle away and even more than you are. Just be sure to support their legs. They don't like their legs dangling so much.

Thanks @wellington!

Did not know about this.
"Just be sure to support their legs. They don't like their legs dangling so much."

 

[wellington]

Thanks @wellington!

Did not know about this.
"Just be sure to support their legs. They don't like their legs dangling so much."

Yeah they are much calmer if you can. Mine are too big too now, but they are used to me carrying them. My Russian doesn't seem to mind now either, but he moves his legs, like he's swimming, trying to get my fingers off of him or get out of my grasp and it doesn't feel good lol

 

[David Steere]

Gained 31 1/2 grams!

Seriously doubt though Tortoise grew 1/2" in 30 days but weight is accurate.

April 28, 2024
Weight: 54 1/2 grams
Length: 2 1/2 inches +/-

June 1, 2024
Weight: 86 grams
Length: 3" inches

 

[Tom]

Gained 31 1/2 grams!

Seriously doubt though Tortoise grew 1/2" in 30 days but weight is accurate.

April 28, 2024
Weight: 54 1/2 grams
Length: 2 1/2 inches +/-

June 1, 2024
Weight: 86 grams
Length: 3" inches


View attachment 371353

View attachment 371354

That is a great sign. Not unusual growth rate at all. Totally normal and good.

 

[Tom]

@Alex and the Redfoot @wellington @Yvonne G @Tom

Is there anything negative about handling a Tortoise to much?

For instance a number of times a day I have some time and go and check on Sandy. I pick Sandy up, place Sandy by the food dish, watch Sandy eat than walk back to the basking area or behind a pot and I got my fix so I continue with my day. This made me think if I was being a bad Tortoise keeper.

Question. Will Sandy get use to this and not go to the food dish? Get lazy? Does this stress Sandy out by interfering with Sandy's day to day activity?

Sorry for the silly question.

Yes you can handle too much. If the tortoise hides all day, doesn't come out to bask or eat or explore, then you might be doing too much, or something might be wrong with the environment. If the tortoise is eating, basking and behaving normally, then it is not too much handling.

Is it stressful? Yes. A little bit. But a little bit is okay, and they desensitize to it. Too much stress all the time is bad. A little bit of stress once in a while is good for them and stimulating. The wild is not stress free by any means, and captivity shouldn't be either. Just watch for signs of appetite loss or behavioral changes.

 

[Jillgp]

To @Tom @Carol S @Yvonne G and the rest of the wonderful people on TortioseForum!

My name is David Steere and this is going to be my first Tortoise. My wife Sandra who I was married for 30 years passed away last December and seeing that my children and grandchildren still live with me I figured it is a good time for me to get a new companion that will be with me to the end of my days. One wife was all I ever needed in this world. There could be no replacement.

So I figure I would get something I always wanted but never got around to get. A Russian Tortoise.

I am the typical person who bought turtles, fish, reptiles at a pet store and once I got them home I than thought of how to take care of them. Always ended terribly!

This time I want to get it right and setup an open tortoise table where I could just sit on my bench alone or with my family members and watch and care for my new companion along with how everyone's day was..

Since it would not be fair to my family to get into another relationship I am going to settle for the next best thing. A Russian Tortoise who will be called Sandy ( covers both male and female ) in honor of my wife. I am going to try to take care of the tortoise just as I did my wife. With tender loving care.

Below is what I have put together so far.

PICTURES OF TORTOISE TABLE

View attachment 368973

View attachment 368974
View attachment 368975

View attachment 368976

GENERAL

• I am 59 years old. With proper care the tortoise will outlive me. Will be slowly having the kids, grandkids, and great grandkids who all either live with me or live five minutes drive to help take care of the tortoise. This brings me great happiness that my family lives so close. I must of done something right! With luck I can instill the love I have with tortoises to my family. So when I to pass away there will be someone who can take over for me.
• Veterinarians. If things go sideways I have a number of veterinarians fairly close by my home. Plus TortoiseForum is only a post away! In a sense you all have now become my extended family.

Ocean State Veterinary Specialists
1480 South County Trail
East Greenwich, RI 02818
Tel: (401) 886-OSVS (6787)
Fax: (401) 886-8998

Wickford Veterinary Clinic
7440 Post Road
North Kingstown, RI 02852
Tel: (401) 295-9739
Tel: (401) 886-6787 (emergency)

That out of the way lets talk about the setup.

TABLE

• 48"x72"x16" box. Bottom and sides are 1/2" vinyl veneered. 1/2" plywood floor and 2x construction glued and screwed. ( I selected an open table veneered with vinyl for easy cleaning. 2x construction allows me to stand/jump right in enclosure )
• 2 1/4" interior overhang to prevent tortoise from escaping.
• Bottom of table is 16" off floor. Inside walls are 16" high.
• I have enough room for expansion in the future. Room to create an additional 48"x48"x16" wing.

SUBSTRATE

• 3" Coconut Coir bottom layer. Many places OVER 3" to allow burrowing.
• 1" Orchid Bark top layer to help keep coconut coir moist and humid.
• In winter months the basement is dry. Plan on keeping Coconut Coir very moist to help tortoise hydrate.

LIGHTING

• NOTE: All temperatures are done by placing a rock about the height of a tortoise ( 4 inches off substrate ) and targeting with Laser Infrared Thermometer Temperature Gun.
• Basking - 125-Watt Clear BR40 Dimmable Incandescent 120-Volt Infrared Heat Lamp Light Bulb - ( timer: 8am-10pm - temp: 90 - 100 degrees )
• UV - REPTI ZOO T5 HO UVB Reptile Lighting Combo Kit ( 39 watt ) - ( timer: 11am-2pm / 3 to 4 on the meter )
• Heat - Zoo Med Repticare Ceramic Infrared Reptile Heater, 100-watt - ( 4 in total / thermostat controlled set at 75 degrees / enclosure temperature range from 70 - 80 degrees )
• Directly over the tortoise table will have a 4 in 1 Light Socket Splitter E27 Adapter LED Standard Lights Bulbs Converter for Home Office Basement to make the lighting over the table brighter ( 6am-12:30pm ).

HIDES

• Tipped over planter. Berm to 6" height to allow burrowing.
• Humid hide which is 36"x18"x8" - ( Constant 75 +/- degrees temperature / 70 - 100 percent humidity 24/7. )

DIET

• Fix a bowl about as big as the tortoises shell once a day. Add more at noon if tortoise eats everything.
• Plan on giving the tortoise a variety of grocery, pet store and home grown foods.
• Seed Mix: Broadleaf testudo mix - ( Plan to let grow and hand cut and feed. Never going to place tray in enclosure. )
• Mazuri Original 5M21 Tortoise Food
• Zoo Med Natural Grassland Tortoise Food
• Grocery Items: Spring mix, endive, escarole, carrot tops, cilantro, mustard, turnip and collard greens, arugula, cilantro, kale, squash leaves, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, celery tops and much more.
• Will use The Tortoise Table and try to plant more varieties. More different plant food the better.
• HUGE VARIETY OF RECOMMENDED FOODS. EVERY DAY PER WEEK SOMETHING DIFFERENT IN THE MIX.
• NEVER GIVE TORTOISE ANY FRUIT.

SUPPLEMENTS

• Zoo Med Banquet Block Tortoise Food, 5-oz
• Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3 Reptile Supplement - Twice a week
• Penn-Plax Bird-Life Natural E Cuttlebones Bird Supplement, 2 count

SOAKING / ( HUMITITY - ADMIT ACHILLES HEEL )

• Since table is open which I know is not recommended I would like to do the following 24/7 and 365 days a year.
• Keep large Humid Hide which is 36"x18"x8" at 70 to100 percent humidity 24/7 and 365 days a year. Sensor is fastened at top by Velcro in the middle/ top of the container.
• Plan on placing the soaking container within enclosure only when soaking. Water level the height where bottom/top shell meets. Tortoise will only be picked up 4 times a day. Never more than 6" off substate in case of a fall. Rest of the time the tortoise will be free to do anything it wants.
• 24 hours/ 7 days a week/ 365 day a year. I work at home and never leave the property. That being the case I plan on soaking the tortoise 2 hours a day. Soakings will occur at 6am, 12pm, 6pm and 12am each for 30 minutes. This with hydrate the tortoise as well help keep the enclosure clean ( poop and pee while soaking ) to extend the time I need to do a total recleaning with new substrate. Will check in on tortoise every couple of hours.
• My regular sleep schedule is 1am to 6am for the last 40 years so will not interfere with my life in the slightest. Two or more hours away from video games, yes almost 60 and still playing games, will probably do me some good. Watching the tortoise while soaking will be so much fun. Probably will be talking to the tortoise the whole time.
• Spray with garden hose the entire surface on "Mist" setting "x" times a week to keep humidity in substrate as high as possible. Testing shows I can keep the temperature at 70 and humidity pegged at 100% percent below substrate using a Zoo Med Digital Combo Reptile Terrarium Thermometer Humidity Gauge sensors touching the bottom vinyl floor under the substrate. Substate is moist, not wet/muddy at touch. Could setup a automatic misting system, like I use to do plant cutting propagating. Something like 5 second mist every hour. This could in theory combat the never ending battle that I am in raising the humidity above substrate a little and continue to keep the below substrate ideal. Automatic would be a plus also. Would have a water source 24/7 all year.
• Normal room humidity is between 30 and 40 during the winter months and 70 degree temperature +/-.
• Normal room humidity is between 60 and 80 during the summer months with 90 degree temperature +/-.

My plan was to get an adult Russian Tortoise but to my dismay all the breeders I have found only have hatchlings. I did find a breeder who sells juvenile Russian Tortoises so leaning on purchasing the tortoise from that breeder. I know the younger the tortoise the less mistakes you can make. Hesitant to get a hatchling due to my humidity limitations.

MISCELLANEOUS

• Unfortunately the tortoise will need to be always kept in enclosure. We have dogs, cats, fruit trees we spray, lawn that we fertilize and especially very young great grandchildren that could drop, kick or step on tortoise. Basement is now off limits to all pets and young children or anyone else who does not know the rules. Rule number one is DO NOT PICK UP TORTOISE. And those that do must wash hands before and after only when soaking.
• Everything I need is one step away from my Tortoise table. No human area used for tortoise stuff.
• Utility sink right next to tortoise table so I can have cold or hot water.
• Garden hose with "Mist" setting attached to sink so warm water can be used to spray entire table "x" times a week.
• New refrigerator right next to tortoise table to store tortoise food.
• Table / Workbench right next to tortoise table to use for tortoise stuff like indoor planting, preparing food and anything else that comes up.
• 4 - Zoo Med Digital Combo Reptile Terrarium Thermometer Humidity Gauge spread around Tortoise table.
• Mini Non-Contact Laser Infrared Thermometer Temperature Gun for quick spot checks.
• Solarmeter Model 6.5R UV Index Meter Reptile Accessory, Green for quick spot checks.
• Generator if power goes out for a long period of time at a bad time of year. Colder months.

DAILY ROUTINE

• 6am-6:30am = soak / inspect enclosure ( get rid of old food, poop ) / change water dish / when done soaking place tortoise near fresh food.
• 12pm-12:30pm = soak/ change water dish / when done soaking place tortoise under basking lamp.
• 6pm-6:30pm = soak/ change water dish / when done soaking place tortoise under basking lamp.
• 12am-12:30am = soak/ change water dish / when done soaking place tortoise near remaining food.
• 12:30am = Lights out over table ( simulate dusk since other lights are still on in room ).
• 1am = Lights out in whole room. Owner and Tortoise time to sleep.

MONTHLY ROUTINE

• Measure and Weigh tortoise and document on this post each month. This way I have a record and forum members can observe my efforts and let me know if they notice something I overlooked. Thirty years as a computer programmer has taught me the more eyes on a project the better the project turns out.

So sorry for such a long post. I am looking forward to many years here on TortoiseForum. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to read this post. Look forward to comments, suggestions and concerns.

So sorry for the loss of your wife. I hope you and your tort Sandy have many wonderful years together! It looks like you have really done your due diligence on Sandy’s new home. I can’t think to add anything except nothing can replace real sunshine. I would try to figure out a way for Sandy to get a few hours a day, in the summer, outside in the actual sun, with shade available of course. Maybe a nice walk w you in a sunny park?
Take care and good luck! 💚

 

[_The_Beast_]

Gained 31 1/2 grams!

Seriously doubt though Tortoise grew 1/2" in 30 days but weight is accurate.

April 28, 2024
Weight: 54 1/2 grams
Length: 2 1/2 inches +/-

June 1, 2024
Weight: 86 grams
Length: 3" inches

Wonderful growth!! My little Russian has gone from 61 grams in February to 124 grams this past Friday I use a flexible sewing measuring tape to measure length, width, and more recently around the shell (under the tummy) and have seen really wonderful growth there as well (5 cm long in January to 9.4 cm long yesterday). Keep up the amazing caretaking! It's great to watch little Sandy grow.

 

[David Steere]

Yes you can handle too much. If the tortoise hides all day, doesn't come out to bask or eat or explore, then you might be doing too much, or something might be wrong with the environment. If the tortoise is eating, basking and behaving normally, then it is not too much handling.

Is it stressful? Yes. A little bit. But a little bit is okay, and they desensitize to it. Too much stress all the time is bad. A little bit of stress once in a while is good for them and stimulating. The wild is not stress free by any means, and captivity shouldn't be either. Just watch for signs of appetite loss or behavioral changes.

@Tom

You got me thinking with this statement.

"Just watch for signs of appetite loss or behavioral changes."

Every time I check in on Sandy she is in the same spot. I know Sandy been to the food dish because of the mess but always stay in the Basking quadrant part of the enclosure ( not directly under the basking light but in the same quadrant and you got me thinking why. She even digs deep under at night in that location.

The overall temp in the enclosure is 77 degrees to 81 degrees. I had the thermostat set to 78 degrees and I just set it to 80 degrees to get enclosure a little hotter.

I am wondering if Sandy has trouble navigating the enclosure due to the orchid bark? See attached video. Do you think Sandy is struggling?

My thinking is even though I do not watch Sandy 24/7 I should chance to see Sandy in different parts of the enclosure. The enclosure in my mind has plenty of "nooks and crannies" to hide.

Maybe I am overthinking things but figured I would get your opinion. Your thought's.

 

[Tom]

@Tom

You got me thinking with this statement.

"Just watch for signs of appetite loss or behavioral changes."

Every time I check in on Sandy she is in the same spot. I know Sandy been to the food dish because of the mess but always stay in the Basking quadrant part of the enclosure ( not directly under the basking light but in the same quadrant and you got me thinking why. She even digs deep under at night in that location.

The overall temp in the enclosure is 77 degrees to 81 degrees. I had the thermostat set to 78 degrees and I just set it to 80 degrees to get enclosure a little hotter.

I am wondering if Sandy has trouble navigating the enclosure due to the orchid bark? See attached video. Do you think Sandy is struggling?

My thinking is even though I do not watch Sandy 24/7 I should chance to see Sandy in different parts of the enclosure. The enclosure in my mind has plenty of "nooks and crannies" to hide.

Maybe I am overthinking things but figured I would get your opinion. Your thought's.

Your orchid bark looks a little bit more coarse than mine, but I think it is oaky. I house tiny little 20 gram hatchlings on it.

 

[David Steere]

@Tom

A day of setting the thermostat to 80 degrees made the enclosure 82 degrees and Sandy actually dug deep a couple of hours earlier then usual. Maybe to hot?

So I set it back to 77 degrees.

I am stumped and a little concerned. Wish Sandra would move around a lot more. Maybe Sandy does and I am just not catching it. Sandra eats okay, poops, pees when soaked and is alert when I pick Sandy up..

1. Could it be just Sandy's personality to sit all day in the basking quadrant and go back and forth to the food dish or do you think something is up with the enclosure?
2. Also when Sandy is basking the front legs move up and down and the bottom of the mouth, white part of neck moves in and out. I assume that is normal but just throwing that out there as something I notice. Can take a video if needed sometime.

 

[Tom]

@Tom

A day of setting the thermostat to 80 degrees made the enclosure 82 degrees and Sandy actually dug deep a couple of hours earlier then usual. Maybe to hot?

So I set it back to 77 degrees.

I am stumped and a little concerned. Wish Sandra would move around a lot more. Maybe Sandy does and I am just not catching it. Sandra eats okay, poops, pees when soaked and is alert when I pick Sandy up..

1. Could it be just Sandy's personality to sit all day in the basking quadrant and go back and forth to the food dish or do you think something is up with the enclosure?
2. Also when Sandy is basking the front legs move up and down and the bottom of the mouth, white part of neck moves in and out. I assume that is normal but just throwing that out there as something I notice. Can take a video if needed sometime.

77 as an ambient during the day should be fine. I might even go lower as long as there is the basking area,.

1. Baby tortoises tend to hide and sleep a lot. If they are warm and fed, there is no reason to be exposed to predators. Sandy will likely get more outgoing and active when she gains size.

2. That is how they breathe. They don't have a diaphragm like we do. Totally normal.

 

[David Steere]

77 as an ambient during the day should be fine. I might even go lower as long as there is the basking area,.

1. Baby tortoises tend to hide and sleep a lot. If they are warm and fed, there is no reason to be exposed to predators. Sandy will likely get more outgoing and active when she gains size.

2. That is how they breathe. They don't have a diaphragm like we do. Totally normal.

Thanks Tom!

 

[David Steere]

@Tom @Alex and the Redfoot @wellington

Should I be concerned?

I always clean out the old food at night and I just found a large cricket in my indoor enclosure. I know I also have pill bugs which I have read on this forum is good. But I heard crickets could harm the Tortoise.

Have any of you had any experience with this and suggest anything I could do so they go away if they are a danger to a tortoise?

While soaking I check Sandy every morning and have not noticed any marks.

 

[wellington]

I had an infestation with crickets years back when my leopard was a hatchling and I had lizards. They did not bother my tortoise at all.
They can much on tortoises and lizards though, so I would get rid of it and try to figure out how it got in. I would also leave the food until the next morning. If food is available, they will not bother with the tortoise. At least until you can get it figured out how he in and that there is more.

 

[Tom]

@Tom @Alex and the Redfoot @wellington

Should I be concerned?

I always clean out the old food at night and I just found a large cricket in my indoor enclosure. I know I also have pill bugs which I have read on this forum is good. But I heard crickets could harm the Tortoise.

Have any of you had any experience with this and suggest anything I could do so they go away if they are a danger to a tortoise?

While soaking I check Sandy every morning and have not noticed any marks.

If you saw one there are definitely a lot more.

I use those roach motel sticky traps to get rid of them.

They can chew on your little tortoise over night and the tortoise will just sit there in the dark and let them do it. Roaches will not chew on a live animal, by contrast.

 

[David Steere]

@Tom @Alex and the Redfoot @wellington

So sorry to keep bothering you all.

Thanks everyone! I will get roach traps asap. Might not be today. In the time being...

1. Should I leave the food in enclosure overnight. I found the cricket is dish. So crickets have actual food and not tempted to chew on tortoise?
2. When I do get roach traps do I place them when lights go off?
3. Do I put take food out of dish and put some food in trap?
4. Do I take trap out when lights go on or okay to leave in enclosure 24/7? Will the tortoise be tempted to mess with trap?

 

[wellington]

@Tom @Alex and the Redfoot @wellington

So sorry to keep bothering you all.

Thanks everyone! I will get roach traps asap. Might not be today. In the time being...

1. Should I leave the food in enclosure overnight. I found the cricket is dish. So crickets have actual food and not tempted to chew on tortoise?
2. When I do get roach traps do I place them when lights go off?
3. Do I put take food out of dish and put some food in trap?
4. Do I take trap out when lights go on or okay to leave in enclosure 24/7? Will the tortoise be tempted to mess with trap?

I have never used those so I have no suggestion for where to put them.

 

[David Steere]

@Tom

Just to confirm this is the correct Roach Trap.