Sex of Russian tortoise Speedy

[Mark C]

Hi guys we're a bit unsure as the breeder who sold us Speedy said Speedy was a girl whilst the vet says it is likely to be a male. Speedy has been aggressive towards the other horsfield we got who is definitely a boy so we've had to seperate them. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
Tail looks long enough so it could be a male, but from this point I can't be 100% sure. Can you make a photo of an underbelly and tail area (hold tortoise back in your palm, so it's looking in the sky and take some photos). If you can make a photo of a tail with where cloacal opening shape will be seen - this should tell the whole story.

And keeping a pair of tortoises together (no matter what sex and age) is usually a bad idea. You've done the right thing to separate them.

 

[Mark C]

Awesome thanks Alex she's or he's asleep at the moment so we'll get some different photos tomorrow and repost! Thanks for replying so 'speedily' pardon the pun!

 

[wellington]

No matter what the sex is, they should never be housed in pairs. Keep them separated always.
The pic your going to post will help us confirm. To hard to tell by the pic above.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello! Hopefully some better photos will help😊
But yes as the others have said
tortoise of any species should NEVER be housed in pairs under any circumstances, they’re incredibly territorial, behaviours that look cute to us really aren’t, following one another and sleeping huddled up is all bullying the the tortoise world, you’ll eventually see more extreme signs of aggression like you saw. Anyone who tells you pairs are fine, have no idea what they’re talking about.

Small groups are ok when there’s lots of land and the correct male to female ratio

Whilst you’re here I don’t suppose you’d mind including some information on how you’re keeping them?🙂any photos of your enclosures would be great!

Are they indoor or outdoor set ups? I know being from the uk we can’t really house them outdoors year round

How big are your enclosures?

What are the temps like? Ie basking area?(directly under the bulb) overall day temps? Night temps?

What lighting/heating do you use? Packaging photos are good!

What kind of indoor uv do you use?

What’s your substrate and how’s your humidity reading?

How’s their diet been?🙂

Anyway additional photos/info would be really good😁

 

[Mark C]

No matter what the sex is, they should never be housed in pairs. Keep them separated always.
The pic your going to post will help us confirm. To hard to tell by the pic above.

Thanks will do... Photo to follow. Speedy is just sunbathing currently!

 

[Mark C]

Hello! Hopefully some better photos will help😊
But yes as the others have said
tortoise of any species should NEVER be housed in pairs under any circumstances, they’re incredibly territorial, behaviours that look cute to us really aren’t, following one another and sleeping huddled up is all bullying the the tortoise world, you’ll eventually see more extreme signs of aggression like you saw. Anyone who tells you pairs are fine, have no idea what they’re talking about.

Small groups are ok when there’s lots of land and the correct male to female ratio

Whilst you’re here I don’t suppose you’d mind including some information on how you’re keeping them?🙂any photos of your enclosures would be great!

Are they indoor or outdoor set ups? I know being from the uk we can’t really house them outdoors year round

How big are your enclosures?

What are the temps like? Ie basking area?(directly under the bulb) overall day temps? Night temps?

What lighting/heating do you use? Packaging photos are good!

What kind of indoor uv do you use?

What’s your substrate and how’s your humidity reading?

How’s their diet been?🙂

Anyway additional photos/info would be really good😁

Thanks for your comments yes it's bad isn't it the advice you get from breeders. It took a year before we realised they couldn't go together and they're much happier the last eighteen months. Yes we've UVA and UVB set ups with top soil substrate plus some rocks, tortoise friendly plants and water bowls for our three indoors for cool weather and wet weather, with runs approx between 15sq ft for the smallest to 30 for biggest. Outside the bigger Mediterranean has a mix of grassy areas with plants including dandelion, plantain and self heal, and rockery with topsoil in a 44sq ft enclosure whilst the little ones have about 20sqft with housing and rockery with similar plants. On nice days like today they're outside to maximise natural sunlight. Not been a great year for the sunshine in the UK this time but all get annual checks with the vet and all very healthy. We love them!

 

[Mark C]

Hello!
Tail looks long enough so it could be a male, but from this point I can't be 100% sure. Can you make a photo of an underbelly and tail area (hold tortoise back in your palm, so it's looking in the sky and take some photos). If you can make a photo of a tail with where cloacal opening shape will be seen - this should tell the whole story.

And keeping a pair of tortoises together (no matter what sex and age) is usually a bad idea. You've done the right thing to separate them.

 

[Mark C]

Here's from underneath hope that helps!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Yay that sounds great! There are just some minor things I wanted to give you a heads up on, top soil isn’t really recommended because unless you’ve composted it yourself there’s no knowing if potentially toxic plants went into it, small rocks can also be a bit of a chocking/impaction hazard.

I’m going to include a bunch of information below, a lot of it sounds like you know already, but I include everything for new members that may come across the threads, however perhaps some parts you might want to read and make tweaks to your set ups if needed😊

As adults they need a minimum of an 8x4 enclosure, roaming is vital to tortoise health, it aids digestion and strengthen their muscles.

I’m going to include some information on an example of an appropriate indoor set up, it includes the correct levels and equipment etc, including the appropriate indoor uv

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 75-80 during the day.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer, providing shady areas with hides and safe plants.

Then CHE/CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) always on a thermostat, for night heat if your house drops below 60’s at night. Set the thermostat for a night temperature place the probe in their cooler end, plug the che into it and the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be plugged in 24/7 but will only turn on when the temperature drops. We’re a cold climate so I think you might need these?

Indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve attached examples of the two brands to go for and some examples of how to mount them.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The problem with top soil is unless you’ve composted it yourself, you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, it could be something toxic. Sand can irritate the eyes and be an impaction risk, moss is an impaction risk too.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting a little too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed.

I’d personally recommend you make your own base to go as big as you possibly can for the space you have. The closer you can get to an 8x4 size the better.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds, or take a large bookcase, take out the shelves and lie flat, or just make their own, for all these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough! They can be professional escape artists😂

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy to hang their lighting, use a temperature gun to determine how high the basking bulb needs to be, the uv I suggested needs to be mounted 18-20 inches from the substrate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct🙂

Also not sure if you’ve already checked this website but it’s so handy! Theres loads of plants in the wildflowers section that grow great here! You could buy some seeds online and plant them in some organic soil that the tortoises don’t have access to, forage them as they grow🥰be very wary foraging elsewhere, there can’t be any fertilisers, weed killer or chemicals in general, there’s also toxic lookalikes so probably safest growing your own💕

The Tortoise Table - Home

The Tortoise Table plant database and resource site for Tortoise owners

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

Hopefully some of this helps if its needed🥰

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Here's from underneath hope that helps!

You appear to have a little girl there imo🩷