Stupid Question, Must Learn!

[Dizisdalife]

Thanks everyone for the input. Here are some thoughts:

I put the sulcata in his indoor enclosure for these extremely cold days (it's 30F outside!).

Just for fun, I decided to "turn on" his outdoor enclosure with all the heating and stuff and cranked the thermostat to 85F and checked back at 1AM. As of now, it's 30F outside but about 73F inside his outdoor night box, which isn't bad at all which is the temperate of his INDOOR enclosure (inside my room).

I would worry about 73° being too cold for a 7" sulcata whether it be inside or outside.

I'm kinda surprised the insulated night box couldn't even get it up to 80F at night, nearly 50F above outside temps, but hey, it's the worst its ever gonna get so it's not too bad.

Either the heat source does not produce enough heat or the box is not sealed well enough to hold the heat in. You could try a more powerful heater and see what temps you can get. The more the heater runs, the dryer the air gets. A 7" sulcata still needs an appropriate amount of humidity for smooth growth.

Now I have two questions:

1. I've been feeding mazuri, but I'm kinda tired of those small pieces. I'm pretty sure I've read/seen about those BIG mazuri pellets...I'm talking like billard ball size....it's much easier to soak one then 7-8 for a daily feed.

2. At what point do I go... "well, it's pretty cold outside, but hey, he's REALLY outgrowing his indoor enclosure, so I need to take him outside even with the heat running nonstop at at around 75F during the night"?

1. Mazuri Tortoise chow comes in 2 formulas. The LS is smallish and darker brown. The Original formula is larger and is light brown or tan colored. Neither is billiard ball size. What you may be seeing is the several pellets of the original formula that has been soaked and formed into a larger ball. I do this sometimes when mixing in other foods with the Mazuri.

2. I would not leave my tortoise outside at night in 75° temps with the heat running all the time. I believe that it will create too dry of conditions for the tortoise.

 

[Tom]

Thanks everyone for the input. Here are some thoughts:

I put the sulcata in his indoor enclosure for these extremely cold days (it's 30F outside!).

Just for fun, I decided to "turn on" his outdoor enclosure with all the heating and stuff and cranked the thermostat to 85F and checked back at 1AM. As of now, it's 30F outside but about 73F inside his outdoor night box, which isn't bad at all which is the temperate of his INDOOR enclosure (inside my room).

I'm kinda surprised the insulated night box couldn't even get it up to 80F at night, nearly 50F above outside temps, but hey, it's the worst its ever gonna get so it's not too bad.

Now I have two questions:

1. I've been feeding mazuri, but I'm kinda tired of those small pieces. I'm pretty sure I've read/seen about those BIG mazuri pellets...I'm talking like billard ball size....it's much easier to soak one then 7-8 for a daily feed.

2. At what point do I go... "well, it's pretty cold outside, but hey, he's REALLY outgrowing his indoor enclosure, so I need to take him outside even with the heat running nonstop at at around 75F during the night"?

1. It doesn't get any easier than soaking a few Mazuri pellets... There are many types of foods made by the Mazuri brand. Only two of these are suitable for tortoises. There is no giant size made for tortoises.

2. If your box cannot maintain the temperature you are setting the thermostat at, it means that it is either not insulated and sealed well enough, or that you are not producing enough heat wih your current heating devices and wattage. Adding more devices or going to higher wattage will lead to more carapace desiccation, so I recommend more insulation and sealant. I also think 73 is too cool for this application. 73 at night in summer, when the next day will be in the 90's is totally fine. 73 at night when the next day will only climb into the 50s's is not so good.

 

[Tom]

I would worry about 73° being too cold for a 7" sulcata whether it be inside or outside.


Either the heat source does not produce enough heat or the box is not sealed well enough to hold the heat in. You could try a more powerful heater and see what temps you can get. The more the heater runs, the dryer the air gets. A 7" sulcata still needs an appropriate amount of humidity for smooth growth.



1. Mazuri Tortoise chow comes in 2 formulas. The LS is smallish and darker brown. The Original formula is larger and is light brown or tan colored. Neither is billiard ball size. What you may be seeing is the several pellets of the original formula that has been soaked and formed into a larger ball. I do this sometimes when mixing in other foods with the Mazuri.

2. I would not leave my tortoise outside at night in 75° temps with the heat running all the time. I believe that it will create too dry of conditions for the tortoise.

I should have just said "ditto"...

Missed your reply until after I had already hit "Post Reply".

 

[Levi the Leopard]

It's definitely not sealed and insulated properly. It's been 20F here at night and my leopards outdoor heated house stays 84F (the lowest it gets in there is 79F)

 

[thegame2388]

That's very odd. The walls of the enclosure are def insulated...I have a 250w CHE and a 200w personal space heater in there...450w should def get the job done in a night box.

Regardless, I'm looking into a oil heater from walmart or something but they're all huge. Maybe that'll get the job done...without breaking the circuit...I don't want anything above 800w in there.

With that said, what's you guys' best recommendation for any oil heater? Nothing too hardcore, of course. Paste the link please because all the ones I see are either like 1500w or they're too big!

 

[Tom]

That's very odd. The walls of the enclosure are def insulated...I have a 250w CHE and a 200w personal space heater in there...450w should def get the job done in a night box.

The problem is not wattage. You are burning more than enough wattage. The problem is either your box design or construction. Post pics and we can try to help.

If your current heaters are not doing it, neither will an oil heater. You want a "mini" oil heater. They run about $30 at Walmart and use only 250 watts on low, which is the only way I think they should be used for tortoise boxes. I maintain my 4x8 boxes at 85 degrees on a night with temps in the 20s with one oil heater. I maintain my 4x8 boxes with an 80 watt heat Kane mat and a 78 watt Radiant Heat Panel.

Your problem is not heat generation. It is heat loss. Burning 450 watts all night long is not good for a 7" tortoises. I think you ought to be soaking him daily with this routine.

 

[thegame2388]

The problem is not wattage. You are burning more than enough wattage. The problem is either your box design or construction. Post pics and we can try to help.

If your current heaters are not doing it, neither will an oil heater. You want a "mini" oil heater. They run about $30 at Walmart and use only 250 watts on low, which is the only way I think they should be used for tortoise boxes. I maintain my 4x8 boxes at 85 degrees on a night with temps in the 20s with one oil heater. I maintain my 4x8 boxes with an 80 watt heat Kane mat and a 78 watt Radiant Heat Panel.

Your problem is not heat generation. It is heat loss. Burning 450 watts all night long is not good for a 7" tortoises. I think you ought to be soaking him daily with this routine.

The problem cannot possibly be the box. It is insulated and everything is good to go. Only thing I can think of is that the 200w CHE maybe sucks...or maybe the fact that it's 30F outside is kinda hard for it to maintain an internal temp of 85F.

Here are the pics (I will be getting rid of both CHE and space heater after I buy this oil heater so ignore them in the pictures).

 

[Tom]

Is there 1.5" insulation in those walls?

Did you seal the seams with silicone caulking?

It looks like the top is not insulated. This will not be too difficult to retro-fit.

Is the bottom insulated?

I also see a raised lip from the interior plywood on the front and sides. This will make the lid stick up slightly and allow warm air to escape out the top.

I don't see weather stripping of any kind around the top rim. This made a big difference in my boxes on the really cold night.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I had the same questions for ya as Tom.
-all my seams are caulked
-I have weather stripping along the entire top rim
-I used 1.5" rigid foam insulation in every wall, the roof, the floor and the door

I also use the mini oil heater. It's tiny and cost less than $40. Don't have a link but it's easy to find.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

I also use the mini oil heater. It's tiny and cost less than $40. Don't have a link but it's easy to find.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Pelonis-7-Fin-Electric-Radiator-Heater-Gray/26978260

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

I too use this heater in my night box w/rigid foil insulation and serious caulking. I have my heater on a win lux100 thermostat. At this time, the house setting is 85°f, it reads 85.5°f in the heated house, while it's reading 25.3°f outside. Works great for me.

 

[thegame2388]

Is there 1.5" insulation in those walls?

Did you seal the seams with silicone caulking?

It looks like the top is not insulated. This will not be too difficult to retro-fit.

Is the bottom insulated?

I also see a raised lip from the interior plywood on the front and sides. This will make the lid stick up slightly and allow warm air to escape out the top.

I don't see weather stripping of any kind around the top rim. This made a big difference in my boxes on the really cold night.

1. Yes
2. No idea...didn't know that was "required".
3. Bottom? Probably not. But I have like 3 inches of substrate.
4. The lid sits snug on top...I don't really feel heat coming out.
5. No weather stripping, whatever that is. What is that anyway?

If there's anything I can do in one-day, maybe something I can buy somewhere real cheap, I'll do it; other than that, I'm horrible with my hand (I paid someone for this) and I'll just run the heater all night long...a 500w one oil-heater.

 

[thegame2388]

Sorry if I sound ignorant...I'm just really tired of "perfecting" the outdoor enclosure. I don't mind paying a bit more per month if it means saving time to adjust or modify my enclosure and ruin the whole damn thing altogether.

After all, this issue is at its WORST right now when it's 35F in California and it'll only get better from here on out.

 

[thegame2388]

Scratch that, looks like I'll be buying some clear silicone caulk tomorrow along with some weather strips....gotta wake up tomorrow to estimate the correct width for the strips...otherwise, the door won't close ahhhh

Thank you all for the tips!

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Caulking and weather stripping is cheap and easy to apply. Glad you're going to add that.

 

[thegame2388]

Caulking and weather stripping is cheap and easy to apply. Glad you're going to add that.

Bought the materials at noon. Finished about 1.5 hrs later. Double caulked all the seams that I could see besides the ones that were literally impossible to reach.

Weatherstripped all four walls of the roof as well.

Let's see how it turns out tonight.

 

[Tom]

Bought the materials at noon. Finished about 1.5 hrs later. Double caulked all the seams that I could see besides the ones that were literally impossible to reach.

Weatherstripped all four walls of the roof as well.

Let's see how it turns out tonight.

Every little bit will help, but insulating the top and bottom will make a major difference.

 

[thegame2388]

Every little bit will help, but insulating the top and bottom will make a major difference.

We all have our limitations, and insulating top/bottom are mine. I hope the strips and caulk hold everything in.

 

[thegame2388]

Every little bit will help, but insulating the top and bottom will make a major difference.

After 6 hours of testing with the zoomed hygrotherm setting at 85F...I checked and the thermostat reads 82F so I'm assuming the heater/CHE has been running non-stop.

My Acurite thermometer was reading 79F. My wireless thermometers were reading 81F and 79F.

Moral of the story is that even after all the caulking and weather stripping, it probably only elevated the temps by about 5-7F.

I don't know what else to do. I do have my suspiciouns that the CHE is kinda set too low from the roof so it's only maybe 6-7 inches from the substrate and it only seems to be hitting one spot. Under the CHE, the substrate temp is like 120-130F which is fine and dandy but other areas are 55-65F subtrate temp.

Tomorrow is when the oil heater comes in the mail and they radiate heat as opposed to a single spot, so I *THINK* it will fix the issue.

 

[Robertchrisroph]

Yes. Thank you for getting the oil filled heater. I can hear your tortoise saying. The caulking you did helped in air drafts too. He said thank you again. wonderful looking night box