This Is A Must Have.

Okapizebra

Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
89
Location (City and/or State)
West Palm Beach, Florida
I would only imagine that would be an issue if you plop your fish right away into 100% new water. Which I would not recommend. I regularly do 50% water changes with no issue, because they still have 50% of their original water, at the correct balance in regards to dissolved gasses. Plus, if your filter is running, it will regulate very quickly. However I live in south florida, and our water is probably near 80 degrees most of the year right out of the tap.
 

mark1

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
1,943
Location (City and/or State)
ohio
I think I am with mostly with @Tom on this one.
me too........ "prime" was mentioned , i personally don't use prime , i use api products ...... "prime" is sodium dithionate , api is sodium thiosulfate....... they are basically the same thing, but the msds for dithionate is much more worrisome than the msds for thiosulfate........ did you ever get this stuff in a cut ???? it'd make you leary about dumping a bunch of it in a tank , like for large water changes ........ i wouldn't even think of doing such a thing in the winter when my water turtles are hibernating........after having gotten this stuff in a cut , i want it diluted as much as possible when i add it to the pond ....Tom's method is way more than i do , but i think his method is superior to mine .......

"Note that the caution about overdoing Prime and Safe at anymore than 5X levels is a good caution. It is NOT because the conditioner will “use up” the oxygen. Rather it is because Prime and Safe decompose into sulfur dioxide (SO2 the sulfurous smell). In high quantities this is an irritant to the gills of fish. At very high concentrations it can kill fish."

msds for sodium dithionate

DSCF0223.jpg
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
50,179
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
Yes, I have tested the tap. It comes up with a strong reading of chlorine.

No, I am not telling you to put it on the left side and not let it circulate. I never said that. I specifically stated to add for the full volume of the tank so that the whole tank was saturated with prime. If circulation is required for a large tank, then let the prime circulate for a few minutes before adding your tap water. Then you are good to go.

Chloramine does not out gas. Only chlorine. So there's no point in letting your water outgas. The chloramine will remain.

I'm strictly referring to freshwater. I always mix my salt and prepare my saltwater ahead of time. I use RO/DI water so chlorine isn't an issue.

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't prepare your water ahead of time. By all means, go right ahead. I'm simply stating it's not harmful if done properly.
No one here has said to not circulate. That was his assumption. Circulating wasn't even asked about before Tom jumped in insulting my experience and then yours.
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
50,179
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
me too........ "prime" was mentioned , i personally don't use prime , i use api products ...... "prime" is sodium dithionate , api is sodium thiosulfate....... they are basically the same thing, but the msds for dithionate is much more worrisome than the msds for thiosulfate........ did you ever get this stuff in a cut ???? it'd make you leary about dumping a bunch of it in a tank , like for large water changes ........ i wouldn't even think of doing such a thing in the winter when my water turtles are hibernating........after having gotten this stuff in a cut , i want it diluted as much as possible when i add it to the pond ....Tom's method is way more than i do , but i think his method is superior to mine .......

"Note that the caution about overdoing Prime and Safe at anymore than 5X levels is a good caution. It is NOT because the conditioner will “use up” the oxygen. Rather it is because Prime and Safe decompose into sulfur dioxide (SO2 the sulfurous smell). In high quantities this is an irritant to the gills of fish. At very high concentrations it can kill fish."

msds for sodium dithionate

DSCF0223.jpg
That's why you should follow directions they give! Same with what you use.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,601
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
me too........ "prime" was mentioned , i personally don't use prime , i use api products ...... "prime" is sodium dithionate , api is sodium thiosulfate....... they are basically the same thing, but the msds for dithionate is much more worrisome than the msds for thiosulfate........ did you ever get this stuff in a cut ???? it'd make you leary about dumping a bunch of it in a tank , like for large water changes ........ i wouldn't even think of doing such a thing in the winter when my water turtles are hibernating........after having gotten this stuff in a cut , i want it diluted as much as possible when i add it to the pond ....Tom's method is way more than i do , but i think his method is superior to mine .......

"Note that the caution about overdoing Prime and Safe at anymore than 5X levels is a good caution. It is NOT because the conditioner will “use up” the oxygen. Rather it is because Prime and Safe decompose into sulfur dioxide (SO2 the sulfurous smell). In high quantities this is an irritant to the gills of fish. At very high concentrations it can kill fish."

msds for sodium dithionate

DSCF0223.jpg
Thank you for this info Mark. I've not used Prime and I was debating taking that deep dive and spending hours researching the difference between Prime and Amquel. I'll stick with the Amquel, sodium thiosulfate, after this info you posted.

And another thing for everyone reading... Isn't anyone else worried about these chemicals that we are all using to dechlorinate the water? I've always used them, but I've always measured out the minimum needed according to the label. Using @wellington and @DoubleD1996! 's method of treating the water in the tank requires treating the entire volume of the tank, which would be three times the amount of chemical needed to do the job. I treat 40-50 gallons at a time for my water changes on my 135 in my living room. Using their method, I would have to treat 135 gallons. I'm not comfortable with that and still do not think it is a good idea.

Another thing I stated early on, was that I was not certain what effect tap water and the chloramines would have on turtles. Seems to me like it would be less damaging than it would be to fish, but I've never tested this theory. In all my fish rooms over all those years, the turtles got the same pre-treated, aged water as the fish. Can you shed some light on the effects or regular untreated tap water on turtles specifically for me?
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,601
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
(If you put the Prime in first and let it fully circulate before adding the tap water, I can see that working.)

Peddling backwards?
Not at all. This entire thread I have said it is not good to introduce tap water directly into a fish tank, and it isn't. It is better to treat and aerate it first. That has not changed. That is a fact, and it will not change. Whether you choose to keep doing it in an inferior way or not is irrelevant.
 

mark1

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
1,943
Location (City and/or State)
ohio
you can get away with a lot , the river in cleveland ohio caught fire back in the 70's , there were turtles and fish living in it .........

i never would have thought much about it, had i not gotten it in a cut straight out the bottle , it burn like hell.........

i like to change water in the ponds over the winter every chance i get ...... turtles hibernating in the water are the same as fish, they are taking oxygen in through the mucous membrane of their mouth and throat like fish do their gills... what i got in my cut finger , i wouldn't put in their eyes ........ my opinion is completely anecdotal , from getting that stuff in a cut on my finger......

your right , it's a lot of chemicals , making other unsafe chemicals into "safe" chemicals , but it seems to work..........
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
50,179
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
you can get away with a lot , the river in cleveland ohio caught fire back in the 70's , there were turtles and fish living in it .........

i never would have thought much about it, had i not gotten it in a cut straight out the bottle , it burn like hell.........

i like to change water in the ponds over the winter every chance i get ...... turtles hibernating in the water are the same as fish, they are taking oxygen in through the mucous membrane of their mouth and throat like fish do their gills... what i got in my cut finger , i wouldn't put in their eyes ........ my opinion is completely anecdotal , from getting that stuff in a cut on my finger......

your right , it's a lot of chemicals , making other unsafe chemicals into "safe" chemicals , but it seems to work..........
It absolutely works, is safe and the fish thrive!
 

mark1

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
1,943
Location (City and/or State)
ohio
would take some negligence to exceed the recommended prime dose by 5x...... i do use pond strength stuff...... it really does burn straight out the bottle....... this is from the manufacturer api for the one i use ...........i don't doubt your experience , but personally i'll continue to dilute it in chlorinated water before i put it in the ponds

warn.jpg
 

DoubleD1996!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2021
Messages
1,315
Location (City and/or State)
Memphis
Okay everyone. If it works for YOU, do it. Regardless of how anyone feels.Nobody on this forum can control how you care for your animals.

No matter how well you take care of your animals, they all share the same fate in the end. DEATH. Everything with a pulse has an invisible clock over its head the day it's born.

That includes us. Let's not waste our time going back and forward over something so simple. If you don't like how someone criticizes you on the forum; there is an "ignore" feature. Similar to blocking.

You simply go to their name and you won't have to ever see another post from them again. Don't let anyone have you racing back to your computer or phone to see what they say next.

Ed
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20240212_193451.jpg
    Screenshot_20240212_193451.jpg
    15.5 KB · Views: 1

Tamster2k

New Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2024
Messages
1
Location (City and/or State)
Crowley
All good points that I agree with. Here is the problem: When any of us see something that we know is potentially harmful to animals, we speak up. I'm not trying to lead a forum. I'm trying to tell you, Barb, and thousands of people reading this thread that chemically treated city water needs to be detoxified BEFORE it goes in to an established fish tank. Frankly, I can't understand what the argument and opposition to this is. Is anywhere here arguing that breathing in ammonia, chlorine and chloramines is GOOD for fish? Is someone trying to assert that these bacteria killing disinfection chemicals are GOOD for the Nitrosonomas and Nitrobacter in the filter bed???

Holy cow. This is insanity. It goes right along with the rest of what we are seeing in society right now. Right is wrong and down is up...
Tom is absolutely correct, sorry, I thought maybe just combative, but no, he is simply right. Just cause you can and do, doesn’t mean you should. If you’re maintaining a tank for me and put tap water in it from my city water, you’re fired, you’re paying for all damages that ensue as well. Why the hell are you changing 3/4 water in a 100g every week??
 
Top