Thoughts on my enclosure design?

[GingerRaph]

This is for an 8yo cherry head that lived his whole life in a small aquarium. I have an outdoor space I am working on for him but for nighttime and colder days I build a 2.5' x 8' indoor enclosure. Right now it just has linoleum for the floor. I was thinking of making a box on one end that I can remove if needed for him to hide out in and then also have two CHEs on a thermostat and a 24" T5 UV lamp. Thoughts? What should I do differently with the space? Drawing not to scale. Right now it's a open top, but I am going to build a sliding lid to help keep the heat in.

 

[wellington]

To small for an adult RF to spend too much time in.
When they don't have the room to roam, insides can stop working properly.

 

[wellington]

@ZEROPILOT

 

[Tom]

This is for an 8yo cherry head that lived his whole life in a small aquarium. I have an outdoor space I am working on for him but for nighttime and colder days I build a 2.5' x 8' indoor enclosure. Right now it just has linoleum for the floor. I was thinking of making a box on one end that I can remove if needed for him to hide out in and then also have two CHEs on a thermostat and a 24" T5 UV lamp. Thoughts? What should I do differently with the space? Drawing not to scale. Right now it's a open top, but I am going to build a sliding lid to help keep the heat in.

View attachment 375168

My suggestions:
1. Go much bigger.
2. Make it a closed camber with front opening doors and all the heating and lighting inside.
3. Use expanded PVC sheets to build it so that it is impervious to the necessary moisture and humidity.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome!🥰

I’m going to include some information below that will hopefully help! It’s a response I give to lots of red foot owners so that why it says that instead of cherry head, but their care needs are virtually the same.

As adults they need a pretty large enclosure, roaming is vital to tortoise health, it aids digestion and strengthens their muscles. For an adult red foot, you’re looking at room sized. Outdoors is ideal but only if your climate is right for them.
Don’t think they can get away with smaller if allowed to free roam, I’d highly discourage any indoor free roaming👍

I’m going to include some information below on an example of an appropriate indoor set up, it includes the correct levels and equipment, indoor uv etc, hopefully it helps inspire you to add to your up and coming plans😁

If using a light emitting heat source it should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached)on a 12 hour timer, using a CHE(ceramic heat emitter) for night heat.

However I think ceramics as a heat source are more suited to red foot’s and far less desiccating on their shells.

Red foot’s don’t necessarily need a ‘basking area’ they aren’t typically a basking species coming from the forest floor(some do though, it depends on the individual) there’s no need for a ‘cooler end’ and ‘warmer end’ with these guys, aim for an overall ambient temperature range of 80-86(82-84 being optimal)temps shouldn’t be going below 80 for both night&day.

Personally we rely on CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) as our heat source 24/7, on thermostats, they’re a non light emitting bulb and I think you’ll find it easier switching to these as your heat source to keep your temps nice and stable. When using multiple hang them equal distance to distribute the heat more evenly.

Dome fittings will help project the heat down, but don’t rely on the clamps that come with them, always hang them securely.

You can then hang some ambient lighting on a 12hour timer, it can being either a led strip or a led bulb in 5000k-65000k colour range. Create lots of shady areas with safe plants and hides, red foots don’t like things too bright.

Any indoor UV needs to be provided as a t5 tube fluorescent light like you say, the compact or all in one bulbs either are too harsh creating uv hot spots that can damage their eyes, or are far too weak. I’ve attached the brands to go for and examples of stands to mount them.

However if you’re able to get them out for a few hours of natural sunlight daily, don’t worry about the uv. Just make sure it’s not too warm and they’re in a secure run with lots of shade.

Your red foot ideally needs around 80% humidity 24/7 to thrive, the right substrate and a good closed chamber set up goes a long way in making this work. You’ll constantly struggle with an open top.

We personally keep our red foot on orchid bark, we focus on the under layer of the substrate being nice and damp to create the humidity, then the top layer being dry, the trouble with constantly spraying is, one, it can only lasts so long, and two, keeping that top layer constantly damp will leave them more prone to a fungal infection, avoid misters/foggers for this reason too, the humidifiers can also make the air too wet leading to respiratory issues. To stop that top layer getting a little too dry because you don’t want dusty substrate, we mix it now n then, which also helps gives a humidity boost without extra water🙂to maintain our humidity we simply pour some lukewarm water into the corners of the substrate, not loads! Just enough to dampen the whole under layer. You can keep an eye on your monitors&substrate to do the pours as and when needed, which in a good closed chamber set up, you shouldn’t have to do loads😊

Substrate wise never add any kind of moss, that’s something some stores think nothing of, but it can actually cause lethal impactions.
Don’t use any top soils or anything mixed with sand. Unless you’ve composted it yourself, there’s no way of knowing what kind of plants have gone into top soils, could be something toxic. Sand is an irritant.

Safe substrate options are coco coir, damp and packed down by hand as a base, with orchid bark(fir not pine) on top, or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/ forest floor on their own.

Size wise I’d generally recommend you make your own base to go as big as you possibly can for the space you have, this tortoise full grown is going to need a large, secure space that meet their environmental needs. A good cost effective closed chamber set up would be a greenhouse style enclosure by making your own large base out of a safe material. Line with some cheap pond liner, the lining going up the sides too and make sure those sides are high enough. Then simply secure a greenhouse topper on top, if you can’t find an exact fit, place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d place some lining under the cover and base though to avoid condensate getting on your floor.

Some people even hang their lighting and heat from the greenhouse frame! Simply wrap the wire around for the height you need(check with a temperature gun/add thermostats, roughly 18-21 inches for the uv) and secure with cable ties and chains. Or you could make your own stands out of safe timber, again I’ll attach some pics.

I think for the size you go, you may struggle finding a large enough greenhouse topper, you could maybe use some pvc covering to put over stands, or maybe looking into some sort of greenhouse polytunnel, or even make your own topper out of a homage frame and pvc panels😊

For a water dish a large terracotta saucer, sitting flush with the substrate is safest, they have grip in the event the tortoise flips, most pet store options are a hazard😕

Id definitely recommend a temp gun to make sure your monitors are reading correctly. Have monitors that read both temp and humidity.

Ignore whatever else is in the photos in the enclosures, they’re just to give you an idea😊and ignore that some of the fittings in the pics are floodlights, ches will work great, just examples on how to hang your bulbs👍

The examples are too small tbh, but my idea is something like that on a much larger scale.

Also as this is a closed chamber set up, the materials like the lining and cover will need time to off gas, I’d leave it all running up to a week, or until there is no odour, if there’s no smell, it’s safe for use.

Let me know if you’d like me to include my feeding list? Might give you some new ideas to try! I’m always on the look out for additions myself, so feel free to share😊

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I agree with the above advice.
Instead of building an enclosure that you'll end up replacing in a few months. Go as large as you can the first time. It'll be cheaper and easier to do it better once.
I understand that almost ANY enclosure would be an upgrade to what the poor thing has had. But spend your time and money wisely. Go as large as you can.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

This is for an 8yo cherry head that lived his whole life in a small aquarium. I have an outdoor space I am working on for him but for nighttime and colder days I build a 2.5' x 8' indoor enclosure. Right now it just has linoleum for the floor. I was thinking of making a box on one end that I can remove if needed for him to hide out in and then also have two CHEs on a thermostat and a 24" T5 UV lamp. Thoughts? What should I do differently with the space? Drawing not to scale. Right now it's a open top, but I am going to build a sliding lid to help keep the heat in.

View attachment 375168

Hi!
I hope Raph is doing better now. Enclosure of that size will be enough as a nighttime stay or two skip a week or two of cold spells. If I'm reading right about climate in Tacoma, your redfoot has to stay inside much more than this. So more space is needed. You can plan for outdoor heated/insulated shed with a greenhouse area later on or just to make this enclosure larger if room space allows. A quick hack to make a spacious enclosure is to get a hydroponic grow tent (they come in variety of sizes up to 10x10, if I'm not mistaken).

A few things about your current enclosure plan:
1. I would not make a box inside - a smaller hide in the corner will be enough, either "bunker-style" covered with substrate or with a roof serving as a plant pot stand.
2. Walls height of 18 inches is not sufficient to place a Desert 12% lamp inside (especially considering 4-6 inches of substrate). You will have to use either Forest 6% lamp or raise the walls or to make a sloped lids so the highest point will be 24 inches above substrate.

 

[GingerRaph]

Wow. Thanks for all the responses here. It's a lot to consider but very much appreciated! I've posted about our new tortoise a few times but he is a little unique. Like I said, he's lived his whole life (eight years) in a 40 gallon aquarium with carpet as the floor. Because of this, and likely lack of UV exposure, he seems to have developed MBD along with other issues. His rear legs work but they aren't very strong. As a result he has a set of wheels glued to the underside of his shell (I didn't do this) to enable him to move around.

I've already built his enclosure so it's what I have to work with right now. down the road it wouldn't be too much work to build a second 2x8 enclosure and join the two together to make it bigger but I am really trying to get him out of this aquarium as quickly as possible and what I have is what I have for now so I am just trying to make it as nice as I can for him while still planning down the road for something better.

 

[GingerRaph]

Hi!
I hope Raph is doing better now. Enclosure of that size will be enough as a nighttime stay or two skip a week or two of cold spells. If I'm reading right about climate in Tacoma, your redfoot has to stay inside much more than this. So more space is needed. You can plan for outdoor heated/insulated shed with a greenhouse area later on or just to make this enclosure larger if room space allows. A quick hack to make a spacious enclosure is to get a hydroponic grow tent (they come in variety of sizes up to 10x10, if I'm not mistaken).

A few things about your current enclosure plan:
1. I would not make a box inside - a smaller hide in the corner will be enough, either "bunker-style" covered with substrate or with a roof serving as a plant pot stand.
2. Walls height of 18 inches is not sufficient to place a Desert 12% lamp inside (especially considering 4-6 inches of substrate). You will have to use either Forest 6% lamp or raise the walls or to make a sloped lids so the highest point will be 24 inches above substrate.

1. Thanks. The box idea was actually really just a roof in the corner so he would have free roaming underneath the lid. Might that work? Like I said, he has wheels for now and they tend to get stuck on obstacles.

2. Thanks for the 6% lamp tip. We try and get him outside for an hour a day at least right now when the weather is nice but for the winter where we get little sunlight he will need a uv lamp.

You are right that my part of the country. An outdoor heated shed is definitely doable but will take some time and planning. Like I said, my main concern is getting him out of the 40 gallon aquarium and helping him get his rear legs working again so he can have more mobility on his own.

 

[GingerRaph]

My suggestions:
1. Go much bigger.
2. Make it a closed camber with front opening doors and all the heating and lighting inside.
3. Use expanded PVC sheets to build it so that it is impervious to the necessary moisture and humidity.

Your input is appreciated Tom. I don't know that I can devote a room to this guy, but I certainly can add to his current enclosure to make it work for him, but I would love to build an outdoor heated shed for him long term to allow him to be outside as long as possible. Our winters are usually 38-42ish at night with some weeks of below freezing temps, so I would bring him inside during those cold temps and at night?

Or do I need to build a fully enclosed 8x8 (or similar) greenhouse with heat if I want to keep him outside when it's in the mid 40s and sunny during the day?

 

[Tom]

Your input is appreciated Tom. I don't know that I can devote a room to this guy, but I certainly can add to his current enclosure to make it work for him, but I would love to build an outdoor heated shed for him long term to allow him to be outside as long as possible. Our winters are usually 38-42ish at night with some weeks of below freezing temps, so I would bring him inside during those cold temps and at night?

Or do I need to build a fully enclosed 8x8 (or similar) greenhouse with heat if I want to keep him outside when it's in the mid 40s and sunny during the day?

I use heated night boxes to keep my tropical species warm at night. Either 4x4 or 4x8 feet. We have warm sunny days for most of winter, but cold nights, similar to your temps. It works this way for me because of the warm days, but I don't think your winter daytime temps are reaching into high 60s or 70s most of the time, are they? A large insulated heated shed could certainly work. Greenhouses over heat rapidly here, even in winter, so I have no experience using those, but in theory, it could work on a sunny day. You'll have to experiment with different things to achieve the necessary temps and humidity for your species.