Tortoises all dead, trader joes cucumbers poisoned them

[Angi]

Yes we really need to know what killed these poor babies. If money is a problem PM me your address and I can kick in $10.00 for thenecropsy.
Rachelle my heart goes out to you. I just can't imagine going through something so awful.

 

[Jacqui]

I would imagine if it was in the trucks for whatever reason it might have soaked into the cucumbers. Not harmful to humans but deadly to little torts

As a trucker myself, I will say we do not use ammonia in our trucks. Second, cucumbers are not floor loaded onto trucks from the producers to the stores. They would be in either cardboard or plastic boxes, which are then sitting on pallets. So even if ammonia was in the truck, it would never touch the cucumbers.

 

[Tom]

I'm a little overly anxious about this for many reasons.
1. Rachel is my tortoise forum friend and her suffering kills me.
2. I'm terribly afraid of the same thing happening to any of my 20 or so babies, with 2 or 3 dozen more soon to hatch.
3. My little girl (the human one) eats those TJ's cucumbers regularly. If there is something wrong with them, I want to know about it.
4. Their explanation does not hold water and it sounds like they want you (Rachel) to just drop the matter. This ALARMS me. A LOT.

 

[Angi]

If something kills a tort that quick I think longterm it could do damage to humans too. We just don't see the damage as soon that our food is doing.
Again Rachelle I just can't say it enough. You are a great torty mom and I feel so bad for you.

 

[Jacqui]

What amazes me is this place must be the only food place that thinks animal grade food should be a higher quality then human food.

Tom, scares me too for all the same reasons, even tho we don't have a Trader Joe's in our area. I think everybody is currently really wondering every time we feed our own tortoises any thing from a store.

I just can't see where they would not be thinking, "Hey, if it can kill a tortoise, what about babies, the very old, and the sick folks who buy from us?"

Personally, I see them doing the old "cover our own ***** and blame everybody else" routine. They are worried about a lawsuit. I do hope you saved the cucs and any removed skin and do get the tortoises tested too. Money can't bring back your animals, but it can pay for the costs your going thru right now and more importantly perhaps make them more aware for the future.

Have you contacted any health department or even ag departments?

 

[Madortoise]

My jaw dropped reading this thread...I'm vicariously traumatized by all this.
I'm soo sorry, Rachael, for your losses. Though it might be hard...try not to blame or harbor guilt for yourself. The other torts need you now. I'm rooting for the surviving tortoises.

 

[godofthelazy]

I don't post very often but I spend most of the day passing the time by reading these forums and I just wanted to give you my condolences on your losses.
I think you should pursue TJ. They said that it doesn't say it is for pets, but I also doubt it says not fit for animal consumption or anything like that. You could go with the premise of how caution hot got put on coffee cups, except in this case it actually should be there. Just throwing my two cents in.

 

[dmmj]

I think she will have to wait until a necropsy is done to see what actually killed them, then if TJ is responsible then go for it, but please don't bring up the coffee is hot lawsuit, to justify anything, it always makes me cringe

 

[HarleyK]

Im not sure I understand what Trader joes said. They sprayed cucumbers with ammonia but they were peeled before they were fed so how did ammonia seap into the vegetables. And how does Tjs know that the amount of ammonia is safe for human levels. I say keep those vegetables and do some lab tests. This could be a potential law suit.

 

[Shelly]

This could be a potential law suit.

At best it would be a small claims suit. The law views pets as property, nothing more. The desert tortoises have zero economic value, because they cannot be bought or sold. You can sue for the monetary value of any animals lost, and any Vet bills, etc, but that's it.

 

[yagyujubei]

I'm not buying the ammonia thing. First of all who cleans a truck with ammonia? If anything you'd use bleach or a commercial product in a truck for hauling human food. Ammonia is not the best cleaner or disinfectant for such a situation. Secondly, its just not THAT toxic, especially in the tiny trace amounts that would have been present in the way you fed it. You know, washed and peeled. Something is not adding up. I still hope you do a necropsy. I know through the grapevine the Dr. Greek is an excellent tortoise vet. A bunch of us are ready to help pay for it.

I agree with Tom, also it is my understanding that supermarket cucumbers are coated with wax, so no soaking in. The whole cleaning his truck with ammonia doesn't sit right with me. Are they saying that he decided to disinfect his truck while it was full of cukes? If you get a necropsy, ammonia would be easy to detect, I would imagine. I think it's something else.

 

[coreyc]

I don't want to sound unsympathetic I think it is horribly but your bashing Tjs talking about a law suit let's wait till she has a necropsy done to find out what was the cause for this tragedy no body even know if it was the cuc's but without a necropsy know one really knows like Tom said something does not add up here

 

[Lisa Anne]

She needs to report this to the USDA. Not everyone, myself included, peels cucumbers. Since the TJ rep confirmed the cross-contamination there needs to be an investigation.

 

[Neal]

I'm on the same page as Corey. I think it's terrible, but let's not be too quick to blame Trader Joe's. From the circumstances described, it seems probable that TJ's is at fault here, but until the narcropsy is done then we just don't know. I don't think bashing TJ's without concrete evidence, and talking about lawsuits on a public forum is a good idea...I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Tom]

She needs to report this to the USDA. Not everyone, myself included, peels cucumbers. Since the TJ rep confirmed the cross-contamination there needs to be an investigation.

I agree with Lisa Anne here. What happened to Rachel's torts is a terrible tragedy that all of us are particularly sensitive to, but TJ's has admitted fault and there is clearly something wrong with their food. Rachel's poor tortoises served as the proverbial canary in a coal mine. I never want to see tortoises die. I spend hours a day on this forum trying to prevent just that, but if they are selling contaminated food to the public, food that I feed to the most wonderful little girl that ever lived (mine), its time to bring in the authorities. That's what the USDA is for.

Like Neal, I also do not want to defame anyone's good name, but they admitted finding ammonia in their food. We all know how these things work. They have to protect their a**. They are not going to come out and say "Oh by the way, a loader spilled some chemicals on one palette of cucumbers, but we decided to sell it anyway."

The necropsy and tox report will tell the story here. With out it, there is not much to go on, other than opinions and feelings. Even without the tox report, there "appears" to be a contamination problem, by TJ's own admission, and I'd like to see the heavies get in there and investigate. If this is not TJ's fault and there is nothing wrong with their food, a USDA investigation should demonstrate that.

 

[Baoh]

Ammonia is pretty volatile. It is often used in certain types of food processing (think processed chicken patties, nuggets, surimi, and others, depending on the particular process) to no ill effect. It would not have stayed on cucumbers to any appreciable degree unless they were sopping with it or injected with it and neither of those should be the case for any reason.

 

[Neal]

I'm not sure they admitted fault, they only admitted to finding amonia on the cucubers right? I wonder to what extent this was actually tested. Either way this still doesn't prove the cause of death in the tortoises, or an acceptance of responsibility on TJ's behalf. If the narcropsy comes back as "ammonia poisoning" or whatever, then that would be some good ammo to take to the USDA.

 

[vampire5003]

Well in my opinion Trader Joe's should not ever spill chemicals on food. My daughter loves cucumber and I would be devastated if she passed out or got hurt all because some trucker spilled ammonia! What I think happened IMHO, is that the tortoises had been a little sensitive (due to the runny nose or maybe the immune system was a little lower) and when they ate the cucumber with ammonia it could have hurt them to the point of death. Maybe there was another chemical on it? I would say don't thrash TJ's any more UNLESS it is their fault. I would get that necropsy done, lot's of people are willing to donate in case if money is a issue. I could probably donate $5 or $10 dollars as well. I know how it feels to love a tortoise and them have it die. It sucks and is a terrible feeling.

PS: I would personally get that necropsy done ASAP then if it was chemical poisoning of ANY kind I would take this to court.

 

[ChiKat]

I know you said you had a necropsy scheduled, did you get it done?

 

[vampire5003]

I know you said you had a necropsy scheduled, did you get it done?

I don't think she has got it done yet. She could have though since we haven't seen her on the forum much today?