Training your tortoises...acceptable or "exploitative"?

[Itort]

We all know torts in general are ten times more responsive to stimulli than a PETA. Sensory deprivation does not work on PETA as they have no sense, just nonsense.

 

[Nay]

Hi, this thread had me laughing quite a bit, (as I have a 15 yr old son ) I did think the dressing was a joke, but it sounds like it was real, and really if she was told,,,oh well...
I would be careful about inviting the boxies owner over , as if your son is anything like mine, if you approve of someone he won't.
Those Peta people once ,during a special permit doe season around us in Quabbin water supply, set themselves up walking around with antlers.... They were asking to be shot and very lucky no one did. Smart folks. Another smart move they did near here, was to break into this ferret factory, (Not that I agree to that either) but they broke in and let all the ferrets go. Oh yeah those guys went on to be some dogs delicious lunch. I know ferrets can survive in the wild but these poor guys never left the cage.
Ohhh, it makes me furious!!!!
Go Ted!!!

So anyway Terry, go on being super nice to the girlfriend and she will move on her merry way.

Na

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Now to get back on topic.When I trained my redfoots to tap dance and spin plates on sticks,I used a combination of sensory deprivation and fasting.I don't see anything unethical about it.

Is that on YouTube, yet?

Hi, this thread had me laughing quite a bit, (as I have a 15 yr old son ) I did think the dressing was a joke, but it sounds like it was real, and really if she was told,,,oh well...
I would be careful about inviting the boxies owner over , as if your son is anything like mine, if you approve of someone he won't.

LOL...yeah, my wife and I were discussing that, but my daughter figures we'll all just be "subtle" and see how things progress...

Those Peta people once ,during a special permit doe season around us in Quabbin water supply, set themselves up walking around with antlers.... They were asking to be shot and very lucky no one did. Smart folks.

Brilliant! When I lived up north, some well meaning imbeciles decided to save some bears during bear season...in trying to grab a cub, to save it from the hunters, some ended up in the hospital, and got the mama bear shot...doubt that was the original intent, though...

Another smart move they did near here, was to break into this ferret factory, (Not that I agree to that either) but they broke in and let all the ferrets go. Oh yeah those guys went on to be some dogs delicious lunch. I know ferrets can survive in the wild but these poor guys never left the cage.

THAT'S incredibly sad...

Ohhh, it makes me furious!!!!
Go Ted!!!

Ted Nugent? He's as big a jerk as the PETA folks! I'm thinking a point halfway between is a better answer.

So anyway Terry, go on being super nice to the girlfriend and she will move on her merry way.

Prefer to avoid the little ding-a-ling, but I will continue to be polite to her...and only offer popcorn.

Na

 

[Laura]

Ferrets Dont survive in the wild.. if they did.. we would be overun with them.. WHich is one of the arguments for the state of Calif not allowing them.. they will breed and take over and eat all the birds and poultry industry..
There are THOUSANDS living here.. many get loose.. there is No wild population of them running amuck, that I know of at least..
Legalize them already!
How is the Tort training going?

 

[TylerStewart]

I think her views are off, but most 18 year olds are. My husband the ultra conservative CFO was a democrat at 18.

I think many teenager's views from high school into and through college are "off." Then they get kicked out of their parent's house, get a job, start paying taxes and many of them turn conservative.

 

[Tom]

I think her views are off, but most 18 year olds are. My husband the ultra conservative CFO was a democrat at 18.

I think many teenager's views from high school into and through college are "off." Then they get kicked out of their parent's house, get a job, start paying taxes and many of them turn conservative.

I have seen this...a lot.

And Terry, Ted is one of my favorite people. I'd like to hang out with him as much as Richard Fife.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I think her views are off, but most 18 year olds are. My husband the ultra conservative CFO was a democrat at 18.

I think many teenager's views from high school into and through college are "off." Then they get kicked out of their parent's house, get a job, start paying taxes and many of them turn conservative.

I have seen this...a lot.

And Terry, Ted is one of my favorite people. I'd like to hang out with him as much as Richard Fife.

Fife, the herpetologist, is pretty cool, and I, too, would like to hang out w/ him.

Nugent, the draft-dodger/child-molester/racist/attention-wh*re/musical has-been...not so much.

But this is the Debatable section of the forum, so it's ok for us to "agree to disagree" on some things, right?

 

[Tom]

I think her views are off, but most 18 year olds are. My husband the ultra conservative CFO was a democrat at 18.

I think many teenager's views from high school into and through college are "off." Then they get kicked out of their parent's house, get a job, start paying taxes and many of them turn conservative.

I have seen this...a lot.

And Terry, Ted is one of my favorite people. I'd like to hang out with him as much as Richard Fife.

Fife, the herpetologist, is pretty cool, and I, too, would like to hang out w/ him.

Nugent, the draft-dodger/child-molester/racist/attention-wh*re/musical has-been...not so much.

But this is the Debatable section of the forum, so it's ok for us to "agree to disagree" on some things, right?

Yes it is.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I think her views are off, but most 18 year olds are. My husband the ultra conservative CFO was a democrat at 18.

I think many teenager's views from high school into and through college are "off." Then they get kicked out of their parent's house, get a job, start paying taxes and many of them turn conservative.

I have seen this...a lot.

And Terry, Ted is one of my favorite people. I'd like to hang out with him as much as Richard Fife.

Fife, the herpetologist, is pretty cool, and I, too, would like to hang out w/ him.

Nugent, the draft-dodger/child-molester/racist/attention-wh*re/musical has-been...not so much.

But this is the Debatable section of the forum, so it's ok for us to "agree to disagree" on some things, right?

Yes it is.

 

[firework]

I think "if animals should be kept by people as pets" is a more valid discussion than “If it’s alright pets learned something about their owners”, because the “exploitation” comes from the very fact that the animals are intelligent beings, they will always learn about their environment. If their environment involves people, they will learn people’s behavior and respond to it.

I guess it’s hard to “exploit” a plant, because it doesn’t think as much as animals do. It’s also hard NOT to “exploit” a dog even given the greatest freedom, it just figures out.

This is the way I think about it: your tortoise trained YOU using a bell by rewarding you a big scene of tortoise gathering. They like the bell sound and want YOU do it for them at dinner.

 

[moswen]

This is the way I think about it: your tortoise trained YOU using a bell by rewarding you a big scene of tortoise gathering. They like the bell sound and want YOU do it for them at dinner.

Oh man, I'm all over that. Animals are just smart beings (some more than others obviously). We look at it as "I'll teach them to do this because...." And the animals are probably thinking (something like) "I'll do this because that makes them give me something awesome" or however animals think... They may get a mental image of them standing up ontop of the world with a gold medal because they're awesome... who knows...

 

[PeanutbuttER]

They may get a mental image of them standing up ontop of the world with a gold medal because they're awesome... who knows...

Love it. I think that visual sums up perfectly how torts view themselves.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I think "if animals should be kept by people as pets" is a more valid discussion than “If it’s alright pets learned something about their owners”, because the “exploitation” comes from the very fact that the animals are intelligent beings, they will always learn about their environment. If their environment involves people, they will learn people’s behavior and respond to it.

I guess it’s hard to “exploit” a plant, because it doesn’t think as much as animals do. It’s also hard NOT to “exploit” a dog even given the greatest freedom, it just figures out.

This is the way I think about it: your tortoise trained YOU using a bell by rewarding you a big scene of tortoise gathering. They like the bell sound and want YOU do it for them at dinner.

LOL

 

[dannomite]

When I was a kid playing outside in the neighborhood, my dad would whistle really loud when it was dinner time and my brother and I went running home excited to eat dinner.....this whole time I didn't realize they were "conditioning" me.....how cruel of them...no wonder I salivate when someone whistles now...lol this thread was very entertaining!

 

[pugsandkids]

I agree, an entertaining thread! I was surprised at how long a seemingly silly question (to me at least) thread went on. Now I get it ;D

I have a 14 year old son, if some girl showed up at the house and criticized my animals and how they are treated...Well, it'd be very, very hard to behave myself. But I know all to well that if you say no, teenagers hear "Better do it more!" (at least thats how I was!)

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Well, it seems the teen romance has hit a serious snag...the other night we all went out for dinner, he ordered a double-cheese burger, she loudly told him no lips that touched meat would ever touch hers, he ate said cheese burger anyway, she gave him the cold shoulder for the rest of the evening and when he took her home she slammed the door to his car...repeat - SLAMMED THE DOOR TO HIS CAR!!!

He really LOVES his 2003 Dodge Neon...

This morning I told That Other Gal to remember to praise said 2003 Dodge Neon lavishly and often!

 

[pugsandkids]

I can't believe she'd behave that way while you are all out for dinner! She's high on drama, hopefully she'll outgrow it. Meanwhile he's probably learning a lot about what traits he does NOT want in a SO. Good luck with That Other Gal

 

[Yourlocalpoet]

Well, your son's girlfriend sounds like a complete *****! There's absolutely nothing exploitative in you ringing a bell so your tortoises know when it's dinner time, maybe if you forced your tortoises to make you dinner every night and then rang a bell to tell you it was ready it would be
I've been a vegetarian for about 9 years now and it's people like your son's g/f who give us a bad name! I don't eat meat products or wear leather/fur because I beleive it's cruel and unnecessary, the only real argument for eating meat is that it tastes nice and that's not enough for me. I can't justify killing or making an animal suffer for my own pleasure, therefore I'm veggie. Having said this I have no problem with people who eat meat, and certainly wouldn't be rude to someone about it, if you want to eat that bacon sandwich eat it, if you want to eat that bacon sandwich sat on my knee, eat it, i just don't want any!