Training your tortoises...acceptable or "exploitative"?

[Terry Allan Hall]

My youngest son's girlfriend, who I should mention is a rabid member of PETA, has a new rant: She feels that by ringing a bell everytime I feed my torts, so they come a-running to be fed, I'm exploiting them...that if I truly loved them for themselves, I wouldn't be "conditioning their responses"...

All this time I just thought I was letting them know I'd brought 'em dinner...

So, what's verdict: Is it exploitive to teach them when it's feeding time via a bell, whistle, etc?

BTW, you don't even want to know about the heated discussions about my family eating the venison, etc. from my hunting trips...

 

[PeanutbuttER]

Training animals is just fine. In fact it's unavoidable. They learn your routines so if you feed them the same time every day then that's essentially training them as well to be hungry at that time.

I really don't understand what her premise is. Is she ranting about the fact that they're being "trained" or about the fact that they're learning a routine outside of what they'd know in the wild?

 

[JenniferinFL]

C'mon now, you would have to abandon ALL reason to be able to agree with a PETA member on just about anything..

First of all, you have to keep this very important thought in mind about PETA's opinion of pets.
http://www.peta.org/campaigns/ar-petaonpets.asp
"We at PETA very much love the animal companions who share our homes, but we believe that it would have been in the animals' best interests if the institution of "pet keeping"—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as "pets"—never existed."


http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=133
"In a perfect world, animals would be free to live their lives to the fullest, raising their young and following their natural instincts in their native environments. Domesticated dogs and cats, however, cannot live “free” in our concrete jungles, so we are responsible for their care. People with the time, money, love, and patience to make a lifetime commitment to an animal can make an enormous difference by adopting an animal from a shelter or rescuing an animal from a perilous
life on the streets. IT IS IMPORTANT, ALSO, TO KEEP OUR COMPANION ANIMALS FROM REPRODUCING, WHICH PERPETUATES A CLASS OF ANIMALS WHO ARE
FORCED TO RELY ON HUMANS TO SURVIVE."

And, a brief tidbit from their thoughts on reptiles..
http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=9
"Purchasing a reptile caught in his or her natural habitat encourages the removal of wildlife from delicate ecosystems. Buying captive-bred animals only encourages breeders to replenish their stock. If you must have a reptile as an animal companion, please consider adopting one from a local animal shelter or rescue group."

Now, granted, they do say a few things that are correct on each of those pages. BUT, the overall stance always has and will always be against the keeping of pets. So, why would they approve of training them if they don't approve of you even HAVING them?

That PETA site is really hard to browse and actually finding their stance takes a lot of reading. I would guess that most PETA supporters don't even know what they are supporting.

Actually, I know that's true.. lol.. I've enjoyed showing those links to many PETA supporters who frequently relinquish their support once they understand what they are supporting.

 

[Madkins007]

If your torts gather in a certain place at a certain time to eat, you've already conditioned then.

Training animals to behave in certain ways can be very beneficial. Zoos often train animals to do things that assist in their daily cares. Training your torts to come to a signal (normally to get fed) is not a big deal and can help you if they are outside to make sure everyone is safe. If a storm or cold front is coming, you can ring the bell to gather them inside, etc.

Having said that, torts are mostly deaf to air-borne sounds. You might try thumping a log or something instead and get more vibration out of it.

 

[turtletania]

I cover part of all my "enclosures" when I go to bed..... all my torts and turts know that when the cover comes off that is feed time. They see the cover being removed and come running/swimming right over. I love it... and so do they cos they get fed!!!

 

[Seiryu]

Yep. My Thor is already sitting at his feeding area if I am even 10 minutes late on our usual routine. That's "training" without even trying. We all know our tortoises love routine.

 

[Yvonne G]

I draw the line at making them sit up and beg!

 

[Laura]

PETA KILLS animals so they dont become pets... Anyone who is a proud member, either doesnt do thier homework or if they do and truely believe that... Id not allow them over anymore..
Training means different things to people.. Zoos used to be 100% against training.. in thier minds it was training 'tricks'. But when keepers showed the Higher ups that training was beneficial, such as 'training' them to lock out, take meds etc.. and it safer etc... they were ALLFOR IT!
Your torts coming to be fed to a bell.. is great.. it can also be used if they ever get out.. hopefully they will be found!

 

[turtletania]

Laura.... great idea... to use if they get out. Interesting to test if it works?

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

PETA KILLS animals so they dont become pets... Anyone who is a proud member, either doesnt do thier homework or if they do and truely believe that... Id not allow them over anymore..

Hard to tell my son that "the love of his life" isn't welcome in our home just for being a bit of a PITA to me, so I just have to tolerate her w/ as much good humor as I can muster up...and patiently wait 'til one loses interest in the other (he's 17 and she's 18), so it could be just any day now...teen-age romances often are transitory, unless a parent opposes it, thus binding them together tightly!

And he's getting tired of having to eat only "vegan", I suspect...prior to meeting her, he'd put away a fair amount of protein at every meal!

Training means different things to people.. Zoos used to be 100% against training.. in thier minds it was training 'tricks'. But when keepers showed the Higher ups that training was beneficial, such as 'training' them to lock out, take meds etc.. and it safer etc... they were ALLFOR IT!
Your torts coming to be fed to a bell.. is great.. it can also be used if they ever get out.. hopefully they will be found!

Good points!

 

[Tom]

Terry, you should be ashamed of yourself. Openly admitting to engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed teeny-bopper oponent? Sheesh, I thought better of you.


Ha Ha.

---

JenniferinFL:
Oh, I like you already.

 

[JenniferinFL]

Terry, you should be ashamed of yourself. Openly admitting to engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed teeny-bopper oponent? Sheesh, I thought better of you.


Ha Ha.

---

JenniferinFL:
Oh, I like you already.

---

Haha, really? I was kinda nervous after posting that, never quite sure how a particular forum will react to that. I always manage to slip up and post that on a forum populated by mostly the animal rights people and boy does that get the pitchforks sharpened and the torches lit fast..

 

[DudeAbides]

Next time you should show her your tortoise's new fashionable chinchilla skin shell cover!

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Next time you should show her your tortoise's new fashionable chinchilla skin shell cover!

My wife already accuses me of spoiling Jennifer and Ptolemy...

Besides, the wife has a pet chinchilla...just as I love my reptiles, she loves furry little beasties.

 

[Tom]

I LOVE animals too.



They taste great!

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Well, this mainstream liberal is not proud of our "Glenn Becks" on the left fringe. I recognize and deplore their paranoid, misguided, contradictory rants. PETA certainly doesn't speak for me and I pay no attention to their hysterical name-calling and take-no-prisoners approach. It's a shame they have any following at all, with their research-free policies and shrill "absolute" statements. Silly.

I think your son's girlfriend is too young to have studied much about natural animal instincts and responses to stimuli, with or without a human factor. If she goes to college she will soon take a basic psyche course that will include some of the classic studies done in this area and their relationship to animals' naturally selective instincts that have allowed them to survive and reproduce.

 

[DeanS]

I LOVE animals too.



They taste great!

Uh-Oh! You and me and Ted Nugent!

Conditioning is a part of everyday life...I walk in the back and Mortimer and Aladar make a beeline towards me....everytime! They know I'm gonna give them something. And the GREAT thing is, most of the time it's just a chin or neck rub...and they love it. Neither one even tucks his head in anymore (unless I accidentally block out their sun when they're basking).

BTW, Terry's use of the bell isn't really any different than clicker-training, except that he is using the bell to initiate a behavior rather than letting the animal know it has performed his behavior respondently This is not intrusive in the least since tortoises have an internal ear...so anything they hear would be rather muffled.

When I worked gorillas at SD Zoo, we received an impromptu classroom training in which we had to perform operant conditioning on a fellow keeper...that was a trip to see who was actually GREAT and who was average

Part of the training was an assigned read...DON'T SHOOT THE DOG by Karen Pryor...this book is highly recommended to ALL

 

[Itort]

I don't how many are aware that PETA is listed by the US Justice Department as a terrorist group. Fine bunch to be a member of. I think a tortoise responding to a dinner bell is the same as a wild tortoise responding to a troop of monkeys dropping fruit in the forest.

 

[Angi]

I think your son needs a new girlfriend. You may want to have him invite his friends over for a BBQ. He will probably decide she isn't much fun.

I think her views are off, but most 18 year olds are. My husband the ultra conservative CFO was a democrat at 18.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I think your son needs a new girlfriend.

I agree, but that's a decision he'll have to make for himself...

You may want to have him invite his friends over for a BBQ. He will probably decide she isn't much fun.

Now that's fiendishly clever...I like that in a person!

I think her views are off, but most 18 year olds are. My husband the ultra conservative CFO was a democrat at 18.