Update on Gretta - Light Bulb question

[EccoGalaxy]

Past thread from last year: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/tortoise-wont-eat.160106/

I thought I'd made an update post on Gretta and improvements I made with her home.

Sadly I haven't gotten around to buying a new, bigger home for her yet but I have thought about it recently.

In my past thread from last year I had problems getting her to eat, but now thankfully she seems to eat fine. She has lettuce, dandelions, butternut squash and pansies. Infact, it's her birthday in a week at the 18th of June, she'll be 2 years old.

As for progress, compared to last time, instead of beech wood chipping, as of around September last year I started using coconut coir soil which I try my best to prevent it drying.

One question I wanted to ask was what UVB light bulbs would you recommend? In the past thread the UVB coil bulb that I used wasn't recommended and said to damage Tortoise's eyes, and I remember I was recommended light tube bulbs before but with the enclosure I have, I'm not too sure on how I'd attach it. One idea I had was maybe getting protective casing for the bulb (e.g. reflector) then lean it on the edge of the enclosure at a high position, but I'm not too sure. I'm not sure how to properly explain that either.

These are what I was thinking of getting:
The tube light
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0006L1...colid=CR7WI4ECSY5A&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
The controller (and I'm using the plug wires as well)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002UDT...colid=CR7WI4ECSY5A&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
The light reflector
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003ZGG...colid=CR7WI4ECSY5A&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

I've uploaded a picture of her enclosure.

 

[EccoGalaxy]

I also forgot to mention that I had a laser gun tool capable of reading temperatures so I don't really use the temperature gauge anymore really. I apologize if this thread seems confusing. I was wondering if there were any good alternatives to the light tube bulb (other than MVB) and if there's any good way to add the light tube bulb to the enclosure that I have.

 

[daniellenc]

You can use chains to hang it 12-14 inches above the tortoises carapace, but do not use a reflector. It actually blocks UV. You can do a search on here for visual ideas as well as some ideas on how to improve diet.

 

[Tom]

All of that equipment will work. 10.0 bulbs usually need to be mounted 10-12" above the tortoise to get a little UV to them, but only a UV meter can answer this question for your bulb in your enclosure. We are just guessing based on experience with other bulbs in other enclosures.

I don't know why Danielle said that about reflectors. The opposite is true according to my UV meters. The reflector bounces light and UV that would hove gone out into the room, back into the enclosure where you want it. UV reading under a bulb with a reflector are much higher than under the same bulb with no reflector.

I'm curious why you don't buy an Arcadia bulb to use with your Arcadia controller and Arcadia reflector? Arcadia makes the best bulbs in my experience.

 

[daniellenc]

All of that equipment will work. 10.0 bulbs usually need to be mounted 10-12" above the tortoise to get a little UV to them, but only a UV meter can answer this question for your bulb in your enclosure. We are just guessing based on experience with other bulbs in other enclosures.

I don't know why Danielle said that about reflectors. The opposite is true according to my UV meters. The reflector bounces light and UV that would hove gone out into the room, back into the enclosure where you want it. UV reading under a bulb with a reflector are much higher than under the same bulb with no reflector.

I'm curious why you don't buy an Arcadia bulb to use with your Arcadia controller and Arcadia reflector? Arcadia makes the best bulbs in my experience.

Really?? I was told to remove mine? Hmmmmm might have to research this further for sure.

 

[Tom]

Really?? I was told to remove mine? Hmmmmm might have to research this further for sure.

Who told you that?

 

[tortoiseplanet]

Make sure UVB bulbs are always covered and not visible to the human eye. If viewed, they cause serious long term health issues.

 

[Tom]

Make sure UVB bulbs are always covered and not visible to the human eye. If viewed, they cause serious long term health issues.

If this were true, how could we safely put them 10-12" over a bare eyed tortoise. Staring directly into one from an inch away for a long time would do damage, but any normal use of them will not.

 

[tortoiseplanet]

If this were true, how could we safely put them 10-12" over a bare eyed tortoise. Staring directly into one from an inch away for a long time would do damage, but any normal use of them will not.

It absolutely would. Tortoises and humans don’t have the same eyes. This is the same for the sun and man made UVB. Any long term UVB exposure will cause cataracts, macular degeneration, pingueculae, pterygia and photokeratitis. My father being an eye doctor has gotten quite a few patients with eye damage from man made UVB bulbs.

 

[Tom]

It absolutely would. Tortoises and humans don’t have the same eyes. This is the same for the sun and man made UVB. Any long term UVB exposure will cause cataracts, macular degeneration, pingueculae, pterygia and photokeratitis. My father being an eye doctor has gotten quite a few patients with eye damage from man made UVB bulbs.

We are going to have to disagree on this point. I've been in the reptile industry since UV bulbs were first invented and marketed. I know of no person who has ever had any eye problem of any kind due to the UV bulbs placed over their animals.

 

[tortoiseplanet]

We are going to have to disagree on this point. I've been in the reptile industry since UV bulbs were first invented and marketed. I know of no person who has ever had any eye problem of any kind due to the UV bulbs placed over their animals.

Speak to your eye doctor Tom. Any UVB exposure will cause damage to the eye. One of my dads patients is a night club owner. They have UVB bulbs in their to give a glow in the dark effect. After hours of exposure everyday in his job, he was prescribed with Macular Degeneration. Getting to the point, it is fine if the light is in a closed chamber where it is filtered by the glass. When these lights are open and exposed, yes they will cause damage. Especially when you are visiting your tortoise everyday to clean, maintain and feed it.

 

[daniellenc]

Who told you that?

Someone on here actually lol. I was told to remove the plastic reflector because it blocked UV.

 

[daniellenc]

Extended exposure to UV causes eye damage hence sun glasses. Now does checking in on your tort count as extended? I don’t personally think so anymore than going out and forgetting your sun glasses here and there.

 

[Tom]

That is not a reflector. That would be a bulb cover/protector like what you'd find for a kitchen counter top lamp. A reflector is a totally different thing. A reflector is over or behind the bulb. The plastic cover that you were told to remove is between the bulb and the tortoise, and it will filter out the UVB.

 

[Tom]

Speak to your eye doctor Tom. Any UVB exposure will cause damage to the eye. One of my dads patients is a night club owner. They have UVB bulbs in their to give a glow in the dark effect. After hours of exposure everyday in his job, he was prescribed with Macular Degeneration. Getting to the point, it is fine if the light is in a closed chamber where it is filtered by the glass. When these lights are open and exposed, yes they will cause damage. Especially when you are visiting your tortoise everyday to clean, maintain and feed it.

Those "black lights" are a completely different thing than what we are talking about. If you put one of those over a tortoise, it would damage the tortoises eyes too.

The UV tubes that we use over our tortoises are totally safe in both spectrum and intensity for human eyes when mounted over a reptile enclosure and viewed at normal distances. Most of the bulbs in use make so little UV that they aren't even effective for tortoises at farther than 12 inches away.

 

[Tom]

Duplicate.

 

[tortoiseplanet]

Those "black lights" are a completely different thing than what we are talking about. If you put one of those over a tortoise, it would damage the tortoises eyes too.

The UV tubes that we use over our tortoises are totally safe in both spectrum and intensity for human eyes when mounted over a reptile enclosure and viewed at normal distances.

I made a mistake corresponding that story to this topic. You’re right, those mentioned were black lights and they are definitely different. Although I know reptile UVB is *not* harmless to human eyes. Any UVB is not harmless. Man made or not. It takes many many years to get eye problems from the *suns* UVB. You’re right with this, the bulb intensity is much less compared to the sun, and being exposed to it much less doesn’t bring as much harm. Although if you’re a reptile keeper for many decades with exposed UVB bulbs, expect some eye problems in your later ages. It’s better to avoid the problem and just cover it up. You’re welcome to have a call with my dad and he can do further into the human eye problems with the suns exposure with correlation to our man made bulbs.

 

[Tom]

I made a mistake corresponding that story to this topic. You’re right, those mentioned were black lights and they are definitely different. Although I know reptile UVB is *not* harmless to human eyes. Any UVB is not harmless. Man made or not. It takes many many years to get eye problems from the *suns* UVB. You’re right with this, the bulb intensity is much less compared to the sun, and being exposed to it much less doesn’t bring as much harm. Although if you’re a reptile keeper for many decades with exposed UVB bulbs, expect some eye problems in your later ages. It’s better to avoid the problem and just cover it up. You’re welcome to have a call with my dad and he can do further into the human eye problems with the suns exposure with correlation to our man made bulbs.

Thanks for discussing it further.

My UV meter registers 0.0 UVB once you get about 16-18 inches from a regular 10.0 bulb, or 36" from an HO 12% tube. I just don't see how this could be a problem for anyone doing normal enclosure maintenance for a few seconds or viewing their tortoise from across the room. Stepping outside in the mid day sun would do far more damage, and we all seem to survive that unharmed on a daily basis.

 

[Markw84]

The UV bulbs used in night clubs for the glowing effect are putting out UVA. They do not put out UVB. EXTENDED exposure to UVA as well as UVB has been linked to cataracts, eye problems, as well as skin damage. UVB is by far the issue, not UVA.

UVC damages and kills cells, not "bioactive" - as it destroys cells quite quickly (a matter of seconds of exposure). Sterilizers emit UVC. And they come with ample warnings about ever looking at a bulb. But reptile and tanning bed lights do not emit UVC. And the glow producing black lights only emit UVA.

The UVB light our tortoise bulbs puts out is indeed the most bioactive wavelengths of UV. That is the only wavelengths that also will promote pre vitamin D formation in the skin. AND.... those are the most dangerous wavelengths. The bulbs in tanning beds are also UVB producers as that is the only bioactive wavelengths. Those wavelengths indeed are linked to cancer, aging, and eye problems.

Most all of the tortoise bulbs loose effectiveness dramatically with distance, unlike sunlight. At 24" most (except the strongest HO 14.0 bulbs) give a reading of less than 1.0. At 36" - 0.1. My strongest HO bulb reads 0.2 at 36"

However, I am very careful of ever looking directly into a UVB bulb at any distance closer than 24" or so. At 12" with an HO bulb, it would be as dangerous as looking directly into the sun.

I personally would always recommend a hood when installing a UVB bulb over a open table enclosure. I would never allow my grandkids to be where they are looking over the edge of an enclosure and within close distance to an unobstructed UVB bulb.

 

[tortoiseplanet]

Thanks for discussing it further.

My UV meter registers 0.0 UVB once you get about 16-18 inches from a regular 10.0 bulb, or 36" from an HO 12% tube. I just don't see how this could be a problem for anyone doing normal enclosure maintenance for a few seconds or viewing their tortoise from across the room. Stepping outside in the mid day sun would do far more damage, and we all seem to survive that unharmed on a daily basis.

We are not unharmed by the sun. Every minute and second your eye is exposed to sun it is negatively effecting you. My granpa was always working outside in the sun and he never wore sun glasses. Today he is blinded in one eye and has blurred vision in the other. That’s why most people wear sun glasses, not to make things less bright, but to protect our eyes from UVB. I typically spend and hour+ up close with all my indoor tortoises. If the UVB was exposed I’ll definitely be in that exposure zone within the hour I spend everyday maintaining them. Let’s cut it by half, 30 minutes a day. In just 20 years that’s 152 days of straight exposure. That’s a lot over time, and that is extra UV exposure adding up to the time you’ve spent outside unprotected. It’s going to bring you earlier health issues. Just cover it, and don’t end up like my grandpa