...Urates frequency concern

[Sabs]

Let me start by saying I know I need to do my introduction post still. I've been lurking for a while now, made an account, and then continued to lurk. I do have a question/concern at this point though that I was hoping to get some insight and opinions on.

I have an approx 4 month old greek tortoise, Tortelina, (or this is what I believe/was told) I was given as a Christmas present. She had been doing well and thanks to this forum I have been fixing her enclosure and diet. Originally her diet was zoomed grassland tortoise diet, she ate it okay. To introduce some more variety and trying to find the best combo I add in some organic spring mix, wheat grass, and some mazuri tortoise food. She seemed to like it all. One day last week she did get some kale mixed into her salad, she seemed to like it most that day as she picked it out and ate almost all. After reviewing all her food, the kale is all I can see that could be high is oxalates. My concern is she has been passing urates for the past 4 days, just once a day but this is new. She hadn't passed any prior to this point. The first day it was a tooth paste consistency, since that point they appear to be becoming more grainy. Today seemed like a smaller amount than yesterday. She is active still and having regular bowel movements that appear normal. She appeared to be eating well still but when I weighed her today she isn't gaining weight like she previously had been, in fact she has lost over a gram since I weighed her on the 7th. I've read the stickies around the subject and done some additional googling. I can't find a lot on how concerned I should be when this is happening daily, occasional occurrences appear to be okay. I found some recommendations from googling that suggest using cucumbers or watermelons to help clean the kidneys since they are high water content. Does this sound correct? I started baby food soaks today. Anything else I should be doing? She isn't getting any of the salads currently, I giving her only pellets of grassland and mazuri. I can feel the panic setting in (again)...I'm just not sure how panicked is appropriate.

Other general info-
Lights/heat: Mercury UVB for 12 hours, CHE 12 hours
Day time basking temps: 90-100
Night time temps: 80-90
Humidity: 70-40 (I'm working on raising them more in her new enclosure)
Soaks: two times a day 20-30 minutes
Enclosure: rubbermaid 2ft x 4ft. 75% covered with a 1/4 inch thick plexiglass (I'm trying to figure out how I can get it more covered with the lights)
Substrate: organic top soil and coconut coir (60-40)
If I did it correctly attached is a picture of Tortelina in her soak, if it helps.

 

[TortsNTurtles]

Bump... I hope a baby expert can give you some advice and answer your questions. I love the name by the way!

 

[TortsNTurtles]

How is your little guy doing? The dropping weight is a concern. You mentioned the basking are what is the temps in the rest of the enclosure cool & warm end? Your night temps seem high but hopefully someone will chime in. Did you purchase your baby from a breeder? If so I would contact them they may be able to help you trouble shoot what is going on. I feel so bad I know you are concerned. i hope someone comes to the rescue!

 

[Sabs]

She seems okay. Shes still active and eating. No urates in the PM soak, which has been the typical story. However she did have a nicely sized "stone" in her enclosure when I got home from work. Probably about 3cm. I'm hoping that was the last of it. Maybe? I weighed her again tonight and she was the same. (nightly weights may make me a bit crazy trying to see the small changes) My mother purchased her for me from a pet store, a smaller one not the larger chains like pet smart. He had tortoises but wasn't much for insight. I'm starting to debate vet...it just doesn't seem normal.

Everything I've read for babies says to keep the night temps higher than normal. The cool end of the enclosure is in the 70's. She rarely goes into it.

 

[Sabs]

That should have been 0.3cm! Hehe 3 cm would be half of her little body!

 

[TortsNTurtles]

I wouldn't do nightly checks just weekly or you will torture yourself . Hopefully it was the stone. Keep us posted.

 

[sibi]

Hi. Passing urates is normal for torts. It's their way of getting rid of excess; however, from reading your post, the frequently of passing urates concerns you. His diet and his intake of water is the issue. Spring mix has spinach which is high in oxalates. I would not feed spinach at all. I would check to see if he's drinking enough. How much calcium supplement are you feeding him? Also, do you have a cuttlebone in his enclosure? If he's eating his cuttlebone and getting calcium supplement, I would reduce the calcium intake or remove the cuttlebone for a while. What you don't want to see is stones forming in his bladder. Keep him hydrated, remove the cuttlebone, and reduce the amount of greens high in oxalate. That should reduce the gritty urates or stones.

 

[ascott]

given as a Christmas present.

So you have only had the tort for about a month right? The tort likely did not have regular soaks prior to you starting them...therefore there may have been some dehydration which would account for urates to build in the tort and when you began soaking this tort the body likely is trying break down and pass them since the tort has a regular source of hydration---you see, some species of torts retain water for long periods of time in reaction to lack of water at their ready...as a result urates can create stones and worse.

If you are soaking the tort each day I would continue that...if you are able to do a couple soaks a day for awhile then it is beneficial.

I also would feed some cucumber/squash/zucchini a few times a week for awhile (please make sure to cut up small and mix in with other food items so the tort won't quickly become picky for the yummy stuff and not the spring mix type goods...

If you are going to keep constant high humidity levels then I would suggest you be sure that the temps in the enclosure never fall before 80 degrees (day and night)...although, with this species of tort I would not try to do use high humidity for the entire enclosure but I would rather offer up a warm humid hide that the tort can go to when they feel the need....

The baby food soaks are not going to harm the tort but I would not be too worried about doing this...as you said the tort has a good appetite...right.

Kale is a good food source a couple times a week --includes some in with other greens and should be aok....spinach has some valuable nutrition as well, again, not alot--but as part of a varied diet....

I believe you will see the urates become softer/smoother and eventually you will rarely see them....but this will take some time, so be diligent and patient....

I also would not weight the tort more than once every week or two....if the tort is active, eating and overall clear and bright eyes....then let the tort continue to settle into the new home...also, if a tort is weighed with a full digestive track and then weighed again after a poo/pee, the weight can be significantly less...Adorable baby by the way....

 

[TortsNTurtles]

Thanks you for helping her!

 

[Moozillion]

You can also give her cucumber. It does NOT have a lot of nutrients, but it DOES have a lot of WATER in it. My tort ADORES cucumber and will climb over the rest of her food to get to it. It's an easy way to help boost hydration.

 

[Sabs]

Thank you all for your help and responses! She hadn't had any spinach, I always pick it out of the spring mix. At this point I guess it was a combination of prior dehydration and her kale binge the one day I let her have some. So far she isn't a fan of cucumber but I'm slipping it in once a week with her other greens. As you suggested ascott, the urates have become softer and smoother again now. They are also not an every night occurrence anymore, transitioning to every other night and much smaller quantities. It appears that they are working their way out slowly but surely! Thank you all again! Tortelina and I appreciate it

 

[TortsNTurtles]

Yeah! That is wonderful news. Thank you for the update.