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Normal?? The back of their carapace was not concaved two weeks ago... There has been no trauma, no problems, I'm sure it didn't happen suddenly...
What do y'all think?
What do y'all think?
What is going on with this???
- Thread starter JLSchmittou
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That's metabolic bone disease (MBD). If you are giving them calcium, then the D3 you're offering (UV light or sun) isn't working. Without good UVB the calcium just gets pee'd out and doesn't get applied to the bones and carapace.
This is a big wake up call that the babies might be getting into serious trouble.
Feed calcium-rich foods. Sprinkle calcium powder over the food. Get them either out into the sun or buy a new UV light. My preference is the MVB (mercury vapor bulb).
This is a big wake up call that the babies might be getting into serious trouble.
Feed calcium-rich foods. Sprinkle calcium powder over the food. Get them either out into the sun or buy a new UV light. My preference is the MVB (mercury vapor bulb).
Yvonne G knows her torts...
You might even want to look at soaking them in warm water with liquid calcium.
Sunshine is a must... if you cant do that.. then the bulb.. or both.
You might even want to look at soaking them in warm water with liquid calcium.
Sunshine is a must... if you cant do that.. then the bulb.. or both.
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emysemys said:
They get calcium and d3 three to four times a week... Exclusively eat seed grown in organic soil... And it's been too cold to get them outside... I guess we will be ordering a bulb...
Laura said:
They have literally been in the house exclusively for the past 2 weeks.. Before that they were outside at least an hour a day...Can it really affect them that quickly?? And they are getting daily half hour soaks... Is it possible they are getting too much calcium???
Hey...Tom and I were out at OJAI Sulcata Project a week ago and we saw carapaces that came from torts with MBD...and that's the direction you're headed! Please get them in the sun. If you (and others) don't have access to sunlight...then ante up and buy a GOOD Mercury Vapor Bulb. They're gonna need (at least) 4 hours of sunlight/or 12 hours of MVB exposure. You can nip this in the bud... if you act NOW! Soak them in warm, diluted baby food...carrots work best...
KEEP US POSTED!
KEEP US POSTED!
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DeanS said:
We have plenty of sun in az but its been freezing at night and mid 60 during the day... With a breeze.. Son of a.....
That is a pretty classic sign of MBD, but I'm pretty surprised too, based on their previous sun exposure and the amount of D3 you're giving them. I just took in a severely neglected Hermann that is completely soft and has a large crease across the carapace there (whereas you just have the barest of dents). Completely different story, but the vet is not having me give any D3 at all and just give calcium injections every three days because of his concerns about oversupplementation, especially with D3. The D3 you're giving may be excessive, but I don't know if it would result in those same symptoms. I'd definitely give UVB (some use MVB and some use tube fluorescent UVB - my vet is in the latter camp - if you want his rationale, PM me), and maybe try a supplement without the D3. My vet was leery about even doing the calcium, but my tort is extra soft. His approach was UVB, UVB, UVB.
This is my first time dealing with MBD on this level, so I'm just passing on what I got from my vet when I brought in my new little rescue. I'm still waiting to see how it all works out myself.
This is my first time dealing with MBD on this level, so I'm just passing on what I got from my vet when I brought in my new little rescue. I'm still waiting to see how it all works out myself.
Just wondering what you have been feeding and what type of uv light you are using?
The hell with the temps...these guys can stand 45 - 60* as long as it's sunny...keep 'em out as long as you can...and forget the D3...I've NEVER used it and NEVER will. Worse case scenario...leave 'em out from 10 - 2...when you bring 'em back in, soak them in the baby food...then hit 'em with the MVB 'til bedtime...
Also...try to stay away from store bought greens...if they graze when they're outside...GREAT! But I would feed 'em nothing but cactus at this point (all they'll eat)...and a little Mazuri...and I mean damn little. Keep 'em strong, but don't overdo it!
Also...try to stay away from store bought greens...if they graze when they're outside...GREAT! But I would feed 'em nothing but cactus at this point (all they'll eat)...and a little Mazuri...and I mean damn little. Keep 'em strong, but don't overdo it!
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DeanS said:
We will see how they do tomorrow.. Last time I left them out and it hit 65* and they were both hiding in the black planter I keep out there for shelter and they felt cold then I got paranoid about them getting sick... And no store bought greens here, I do a seed mix from sulcatafood.com... Which we've been doing pretty exclusively... I don't even know where you'd buy cactus??? what will the baby food do, potassium absorption?
SulcataSquirt said:
Seed mix from sulcatafood.com and a 40 watt flood light, which I was under the impression was fine....
JLSchmittou said:
I like the Grazing Mix from Sulcatafood...there is a seller on ebay named dorisviola. She sells the BEST spineless opuntia I've seen yet! www.rivenrock.com is GREAT too...completely organic. I'd try to limit the hiding spaces...completely the opposite of summer...don't give them hiding access...SUN ONLY for 4 hours. The baby food serves as sort of a 'multi-vitaimin'...you know! Just a little extra something.
Jacki, I am thinking about taking my Hermann out to one of the outside enclosures but also rigging up a heat lamp. Our temps are exactly the same right now. That way she'll get sun but also be warm enough. It's unwieldy but sun provides a lot more UVB than any bulb.
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DeanS said:
Ebay? Dean, now your speaking my language.. Nothing better than online shopping... MVB light, type, model, brand... Google-esque info?
Look for a Mexican market for cactus. It would be sold as nopales or nopalitos. It's your basic prickly pear cactus, preferably the spineless variety.
One thing to consider, and I speak from first hand experience on this one:
Your soil may be calcium poor, so the plants may not have much calcium in them. My Aldabs were only allowed to graze with no supplemented food and they both ended up with MBD.
Another thing, if you walk around next to your house, you WILL find a spot where the sun shines, but the breeze doesn't reach. I guarantee it will be warmer than 65 in that spot. Our day temps here are only in the 50's, but the sun is shining. Right next to my leopard shed, exactly next to it, it gets about 75, sometimes 80. That's where I set up my baby Texas tort tub. Its on a stand so the leopards can't interfere with it, and in the sun.
Your soil may be calcium poor, so the plants may not have much calcium in them. My Aldabs were only allowed to graze with no supplemented food and they both ended up with MBD.
Another thing, if you walk around next to your house, you WILL find a spot where the sun shines, but the breeze doesn't reach. I guarantee it will be warmer than 65 in that spot. Our day temps here are only in the 50's, but the sun is shining. Right next to my leopard shed, exactly next to it, it gets about 75, sometimes 80. That's where I set up my baby Texas tort tub. Its on a stand so the leopards can't interfere with it, and in the sun.
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Lulu said:
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DeanS said:
Thank you for the info on the cactus!!!! I was just online today looking for some!!
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emysemys said:
I'll have to research this.. It really has been terribly cold.. I had to cover up my rose bushes and I'm pretty certain I've lost two torch glow bouganvillas and two pentas... but everything else seems to be ok so far... I'll have to check up against the far wall fence.. Im thinking that will at least reflect the sun light... and protect from the breeze...??
Yes, that's good. And you don't have to leave them outside too long. A couple hours in real sunshine a day would be fine, then bring them back into the warmth.
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