Worried about my Russian?

[unitepariahs]

Hi all! I have a ~4 year old Russian tortoise that recently seems to be sleeping more than usual. He is eating and pooping and peeing normally, but he isn't walking around his enclosure very much and prefers to stay in or near his hide most of the day, taking naps. He does seem to alternate between sleepy weeks and active weeks but I feel like he's been sleepy longer than normal.

I have OCD which does project onto his health so I am not completely sure if I am imagining the behaviour changes or not, but does this sound like something to worry about? Could he be bored maybe? Or adjusting to weather changes? I have gotten a couple of new things for him to climb on lately, maybe he is stressed by the change?

Info:
He is in a 3x5 (building larger as he grows, this is temporary) indoor enclosure, with a basking spot at 97, general area around 83, and cool side at 77. His diet is an assortment of grocery greens mixed with various dried weeds purchased online grown specifically for tortoises, or tortoise pellets mixed in when I don't have those available. The humidity is usually around 50-60%. He has an Arcadia ProT5 UVB strip light which has been checked. The substrate is a mix of mostly cypress mulch with some coco coir.

Thanks all!

 

[unitepariahs]

Oh, and he gets baths twice a week!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Has there been any recent changes in his enclosure or diet.

 

[unitepariahs]

Has there been any recent changes in his enclosure or diet.

I bought him a new hide that he is obsessed with which was the only change prior to this week, when I replaced his basking bulb (prior one was too warm) and moved a couple things around the enclosure to better break his sight line in case he was just bored. I don't think I had moved anything much prior to that. No changes in diet.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome! Your temps sound pretty spot on, as is your basking bulb type and uv which is always lovely to read🥰humidity is fine too for your adult, and your substrate choice is good🙂

Now they are an adult you can definitely build him his ultimate lifelong enclosure, 8x4 foot is considered the minimum but if you have more space even better!😁

Is your uv on a separate 4 hour timer to the basking bulb?
Do use any ambient lighting? Sometimes people just use the basking bulb to light their enclosure which is often not enough, usually if the whole enclosure is well lit, it can increase their activity, you could even try leaving on the basking and ambient lighting for 14hours instead of the usual 12, to try and trick him into thinking it’s the height of summer, hopefully waking him up a bit lol

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Also it sounds silly but even some minor changes can stress them a little, so there is the possibility that he might be having a bit of a strop at you moving stuff🥲

 

[unitepariahs]

Hello and welcome! Your temps sound pretty spot on, as is your basking bulb type and uv which is always lovely to read🥰humidity is fine too for your adult, and your substrate choice is good🙂

Now they are an adult you can definitely build him his ultimate lifelong enclosure, 8x4 foot is considered the minimum but if you have more space even better!😁

Is your uv on a separate 4 hour timer to the basking bulb?
Do use any ambient lighting? Sometimes people just use the basking bulb to light their enclosure which is often not enough, usually if the whole enclosure is well lit, it can increase their activity, you could even try leaving on the basking and ambient lighting for 14hours instead of the usual 12, to try and trick him into thinking it’s the height of summer, hopefully waking him up a bit lol

I will definitely get started on the 8x4! I just need to figure out which furniture I can get rid of in my room 😅. He was rehomed to me from someone who had him in very bad conditions and once in my care he grew rapidly at first and then slowed down so I increased his enclosure size a couple times but definitely will be working on his long term home soon!!

I don't have any of the lights on timers, I manually turn them on and off, I had technical issues with timers. Should I try timers again to make sure things are more completely consistent? Also - UV light is only 4 hours? When should that be turned on/off? Is it bad to keep it on longer? Also I will make sure the whole enclosure is bright enough, honestly the opposite end could use an LED bulb for light.

I didn't think he was prone to stress much but I got a little cheap cam monitor for him so that I could start tracking his sleep better and it seems he does get quite stressed with people who aren't me feeding him or talking to him which is very surprising to me as nobody has told me that! He's very calm with me, never hides, comes up to me to be pet, eats treats from my hand, etc, so I didn't realize he hid from other people until now!

Today, for example, he woke up around 11:00, made his way out of his hide to the edge of his basking area (~85 degree spot, id guess) and has been sleeping there for the 6 hours since! Didn't walk around at all :- (

Do you think this warrants a vet visit? Or should I wait longer and chalk it up to stress since he is still eating and stuff normally?

I greatly appreciate your reply thank you so much!!!

 

[unitepariahs]

I should also clarify he is eating well when I put him in front of his food dish but he often sleeps through the time that he should be eating normally.

 

[Cathie G]

I should also clarify he is eating well when I put him in front of his food dish but he often sleeps through the time that he should be eating normally.

Hello and welcome. Don't forget that our weather is turning into fall and he's feeling it through his plastron. If you don't want him hibernating keep him at his normal temps and keep doing regular care. My Russian slows down this time of year. Some days I'll just put him close to his food tile in a way that he has to walk past it. I'm also trying to get him in his outdoor enclosure as much as possible right now. Winter is coming fast and he needs as much sunshine as I can give him. Since your little fella is eating and behaving somewhat normally except the slow down, I think it's just the seasonal change. I could be wrong.

 

[unitepariahs]

Hello and welcome. Don't forget that our weather is turning into fall and he's feeling it through his plastron. If you don't want him hibernating keep him at his normal temps and keep doing regular care. My Russian slows down this time of year. Some days I'll just put him close to his food tile in a way that he has to walk past it. I'm also trying to get him in his outdoor enclosure as much as possible right now. Winter is coming fast and he needs as much sunshine as I can give him. Since your little fella is eating and behaving somewhat normally except the slow down, I think it's just the seasonal change. I could be wrong.

Thank you for your reply. I know he normally does slow down but it feels kind of early since it's still August, but also the temperature here has dropped like 10 degrees in the last couple weeks since he's gotten sleepier. I haven't hibernated him yet and I don't feel comfortable doing so as of right now so I will def keep things normal in his enclosure. Again, much appreciated, I'm always so worried about that guy 😭

 

[Cathie G]

Thank you for your reply. I know he normally does slow down but it feels kind of early since it's still August, but also the temperature here has dropped like 10 degrees in the last couple weeks since he's gotten sleepier. I haven't hibernated him yet and I don't feel comfortable doing so as of right now so I will def keep things normal in his enclosure. Again, much appreciated, I'm always so worried about that guy 😭

Well I'm pretty sure your area is getting cold nights like me or colder. I'm farther south. I know Sapphire can feel autumn setting in even though he's on a tortoise table. I don't hibernate my Russian either. He had problems with his shell when I got him so I couldn't. 17 years later it doesn't seem like he really needs to. It's like he's adjusted to it. But really unless I totally understand how to I wouldn't do it anyway. There's many people here that can tell you exactly how when you're ready to though 😊

 

[unitepariahs]

Well I'm pretty sure your area is getting cold nights like me or colder. I'm farther south. I know Sapphire can feel autumn setting in even though he's on a tortoise table. I don't hibernate my Russian either. He had problems with his shell when I got him so I couldn't. 17 years later it doesn't seem like he really needs to. It's like he's adjusted to it. But really unless I totally understand how to I wouldn't do it anyway. There's many people here that can tell you exactly how when you're ready to though 😊

Yes if/when I decide to brumate I will 100% do tons of research and make sure I am comfortable and familiar with everything but so far so good in the 3 years I've had him so far... I just get so anxious when he does anything out of his normal even when it is probably completely fine. Again, thank you!!

 

[Tom]

I will definitely get started on the 8x4! I just need to figure out which furniture I can get rid of in my room 😅. He was rehomed to me from someone who had him in very bad conditions and once in my care he grew rapidly at first and then slowed down so I increased his enclosure size a couple times but definitely will be working on his long term home soon!!

I don't have any of the lights on timers, I manually turn them on and off, I had technical issues with timers. Should I try timers again to make sure things are more completely consistent? Also - UV light is only 4 hours? When should that be turned on/off? Is it bad to keep it on longer? Also I will make sure the whole enclosure is bright enough, honestly the opposite end could use an LED bulb for light.

I didn't think he was prone to stress much but I got a little cheap cam monitor for him so that I could start tracking his sleep better and it seems he does get quite stressed with people who aren't me feeding him or talking to him which is very surprising to me as nobody has told me that! He's very calm with me, never hides, comes up to me to be pet, eats treats from my hand, etc, so I didn't realize he hid from other people until now!

Today, for example, he woke up around 11:00, made his way out of his hide to the edge of his basking area (~85 degree spot, id guess) and has been sleeping there for the 6 hours since! Didn't walk around at all :- (

Do you think this warrants a vet visit? Or should I wait longer and chalk it up to stress since he is still eating and stuff normally?

I greatly appreciate your reply thank you so much!!!

Here is a breakdown of the four heating and lighting essentials:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.htmlA good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I will definitely get started on the 8x4! I just need to figure out which furniture I can get rid of in my room 😅. He was rehomed to me from someone who had him in very bad conditions and once in my care he grew rapidly at first and then slowed down so I increased his enclosure size a couple times but definitely will be working on his long term home soon!!

I don't have any of the lights on timers, I manually turn them on and off, I had technical issues with timers. Should I try timers again to make sure things are more completely consistent? Also - UV light is only 4 hours? When should that be turned on/off? Is it bad to keep it on longer? Also I will make sure the whole enclosure is bright enough, honestly the opposite end could use an LED bulb for light.

I didn't think he was prone to stress much but I got a little cheap cam monitor for him so that I could start tracking his sleep better and it seems he does get quite stressed with people who aren't me feeding him or talking to him which is very surprising to me as nobody has told me that! He's very calm with me, never hides, comes up to me to be pet, eats treats from my hand, etc, so I didn't realize he hid from other people until now!

Today, for example, he woke up around 11:00, made his way out of his hide to the edge of his basking area (~85 degree spot, id guess) and has been sleeping there for the 6 hours since! Didn't walk around at all :- (

Do you think this warrants a vet visit? Or should I wait longer and chalk it up to stress since he is still eating and stuff normally?

I greatly appreciate your reply thank you so much!!!

I’d personally try the timers again to keep things more regular yeah, they really like a set routine, when it differs that can stress them a bit too. We use these kind of plug in wall timers(pic attached)found they’ve worked well. You’re definitely a key part in his routine so makes sense he can get shy around others bless him.

Yeah uv only needs to be 4 hours, you may see lots of information that says to have 12hours uv, don’t let it throw you, it did me too at first lol, it’s simply an old rule that has stuck with a lot of keepers, it stems from the thought that once the basking light, ie the ‘sun’ comes on, that uv must coexist the same amount of time, fact is the uv rays only peak for a few hours a day, no tortoise in the wild is blasted with 12hours worth, therefore it’s not necessary to do so in captivity, save your bulb life👍it can be on from noonish till 4, or whenever you notice your guy prefers to bask😊

As the basking light would be the only light source for the majority of the day, I’d definitely get yourself an led to put on the same timer as the basking light, hopefully things being brighter will help🙂

I wouldn’t personally go to the vet just yet no, as he’s still eating and pooping fine. Do you weigh him by any chance? Might be good to start keeping track if you have any concerns, drastic weight loss is usually the first indicator. I personally think it sounds like some of the recent minor changes might have stressed him a bit, but definitely keep an eye and give some time to see if the suggestions perk him up🐢💚

Bless you for taking him in! Always happy to help in anyway I can, keep us in the loop on how he gets on🥰

 

[unitepariahs]

I’d personally try the timers again to keep things more regular yeah, they really like a set routine, when it differs that can stress them a bit too. We use these kind of plug in wall timers(pic attached)found they’ve worked well. You’re definitely a key part in his routine so makes sense he can get shy around others bless him.

Yeah uv only needs to be 4 hours, you may see lots of information that says to have 12hours uv, don’t let it throw you, it did me too at first lol, it’s simply an old rule that has stuck with a lot of keepers, it stems from the thought that once the basking light, ie the ‘sun’ comes on, that uv must coexist the same amount of time, fact is the uv rays only peak for a few hours a day, no tortoise in the wild is blasted with 12hours worth, therefore it’s not necessary to do so in captivity, save your bulb life👍it can be on from noonish till 4, or whenever you notice your guy prefers to bask😊

As the basking light would be the only light source for the majority of the day, I’d definitely get yourself an led to put on the same timer as the basking light, hopefully things being brighter will help🙂

I wouldn’t personally go to the vet just yet no, as he’s still eating and pooping fine. Do you weigh him by any chance? Might be good to start keeping track if you have any concerns, drastic weight loss is usually the first indicator. I personally think it sounds like some of the recent minor changes might have stressed him a bit, but definitely keep an eye and give some time to see if the suggestions perk him up🐢💚

Bless you for taking him in! Always happy to help in anyway I can, keep us in the loop on how he gets on🥰

I got an LED at 5000k and will try a new timer, maybe mine was defective! I have weighed him in the past so I can weigh him again tomorrow when he gets up and start keeping track more frequently. Thank you!!!

Also, I just woke him up to eat and noticed that his eyes were watery and he kept blinking and rubbing his eyes while eating - maybe he got something in his eyes and that's the cause of the excessive sleeping? Do those reptile eye drops work or is there something else I can do? Humidity is currently at 50%.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I got an LED at 5000k and will try a new timer, maybe mine was defective! I have weighed him in the past so I can weigh him again tomorrow when he gets up and start keeping track more frequently. Thank you!!!

Also, I just woke him up to eat and noticed that his eyes were watery and he kept blinking and rubbing his eyes while eating - maybe he got something in his eyes and that's the cause of the excessive sleeping? Do those reptile eye drops work or is there something else I can do? Humidity is currently at 50%.

Sounds good, it’s possible it was a faulty one, they’re kind of cheap but we’ve never had issues, so hopefully your next few will be ok.

It could be that something irritated his eyes, but I don’t think that would cause the sleepiness. Have you noticed them watering before? Do they seem clear at the moment?
Watery eyes can sometimes be indicative of something respiratory, so just keep a close eye for if that continues. Eye drop wise, saline solution will work to help flush anything out if you’re worried he’s got something in them. You’re humidity sounds spot on🙂

 

[unitepariahs]

Sounds good, it’s possible it was a faulty one, they’re kind of cheap but we’ve never had issues, so hopefully your next few will be ok.

It could be that something irritated his eyes, but I don’t think that would cause the sleepiness. Have you noticed them watering before? Do they seem clear at the moment?
Watery eyes can sometimes be indicative of something respiratory, so just keep a close eye for if that continues. Eye drop wise, saline solution will work to help flush anything out if you’re worried he’s got something in them. You’re humidity sounds spot on🙂

He's occasionally had watery/irritated eyes for a couple days and then it seems to clear up on its own or with baths/gentle water, has happened maybe once a year since I've had him, not frequently. When I woke him up, his eyes were watery and he didn't open them for about 15 seconds or so while being awake, but then after opening them and blinking the watery-ness went away but he kept rubbing them. They seemed maybe mildly puffy (or maybe he just was squinting a bit) but otherwise looked normal as far as I could tell once the tears cleared up.

I'm probably just reading far too much into everything due to my anxiety 😭 but I will 100% keep monitoring him closely. He is exhibiting no other signs of respiratory illness (breathing normally, closed mouth, clear nostrils, etc). Again I very very much appreciate your responses, I apologize for my neuroticism lol I want everything to be perfect for him.

 

[unitepariahs]

A couple of eye pics currently:

 

[unitepariahs]

Also I know his beak could use a bit of a trim, it has been monitored by his vet and myself and has stayed at that length for awhile, he won't let the vet trim it and just hides the whole time so the vet said he's not concerned as long as it stays the current length.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

He's occasionally had watery/irritated eyes for a couple days and then it seems to clear up on its own or with baths/gentle water, has happened maybe once a year since I've had him, not frequently. When I woke him up, his eyes were watery and he didn't open them for about 15 seconds or so while being awake, but then after opening them and blinking the watery-ness went away but he kept rubbing them. They seemed maybe mildly puffy (or maybe he just was squinting a bit) but otherwise looked normal as far as I could tell once the tears cleared up.

I'm probably just reading far too much into everything due to my anxiety 😭 but I will 100% keep monitoring him closely. He is exhibiting no other signs of respiratory illness (breathing normally, closed mouth, clear nostrils, etc). Again I very very much appreciate your responses, I apologize for my neuroticism lol I want everything to be perfect for him.

They do look slightly puffy on the first pic but normal on the second one, leading me to think it’s more an irritant situation and not respiratory, especially if it seems to clear up by itself quite quickly, and the rubbing. The only think I can think of personally, perhaps others will spot something I haven’t, is it possible your substrate is a little dusty? Sometimes coir can dry out on top and get like that, I personally think it works better as a base, make it nice and damp(but not muddy lol) packed down firmly by hand(not left fluffy because it can dry quicker) with a layer of mulch on top that will hopefully keep the under layer moist enough. Obviously you don’t want humidity creeping up too high for these guys, but it should settle down

Because the watery eyes are coinciding with a slight decrease in activity, definitely do monitor it, which I’m sure you will, you sound a very caring and attentive owner🥰

No apologies necessary! I’m the exact same when it comes to our red foot🐢❤️

Also I know his beak could use a bit of a trim, it has been monitored by his vet and myself and has stayed at that length for awhile, he won't let the vet trim it and just hides the whole time so the vet said he's not concerned as long as it stays the current length.

it’s slightly on the long side, but looks short enough to wear down naturally without the need for a trim. Feeding in a large serving slate can really help with this if you haven’t got one already🙂if he has no trouble eating, I wouldn’t be concerned about it either👍