Would you spend $5000 on a Galapagos tortoise hatchling?

[Terry Allan Hall]

Just curious what everyone's opinion would be on the pros and cons of buying a couple of galapagos tortoise hatchlings for $5,000 each.

If I lived somewhere like Hawaii, where they'd be comfortable living outside 24/7/365, I'd find the $$$ (likely have to save a while, though).

$5K per is probably not an outrageous price, as I understand they don't readily breed.

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Many options that go into place here. They do get huge like the aldabras. But there are very few private breeders that are successful with reproducing them. Zoos even have tough time with them. San Diego is successful, Gladys porter is a huge producer. And a few more. That's it. most of them are different sub species and the studbook won't allow them to be hybridized and studbook registered. I'd say you have 4-7 successful private keepers that produce them. They also lay pretty small clutches and have low fertility rates. So babies are not often to come by. They are a remarkable species and endangered at that. So the more knowledgeable people to have them the better. Heck if I like a certain box turtle that just fancies my taste I'd pay anything for something I like. If its looked at from only a money stand point. Then no you should not purchase one. Dedication and desire typically outweigh money in this industry.

Good answer!

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Thank you cdmay, N2TORTS and tortadise. Fascinating info about them, the islands, the interbreeding.
Now that I have been informed and educated about Galapagos tortoises, I change my answer from a speedy yay, to thought conscious no.
Gotta see that documentary you referred to, JD.
I did not know this about the Galapagos tortoises. Changes everything. Thanks again.

 

[N2TORTS]

Well put JD. I agree with Carl too. Last I looked at my papers on it. Isabella island has 4 subspecies all within very close range of each other. Volcano dwellers. I'm not too certain and its getting off topic. But I looked into getting some phenotype analysis done on some tortoises. I believe it was duke university that can possibly do it. buuuuut they can't just test it and tell you what it is. they need a known pure haplotype to test against.

Exactly Kelly ….the Haplotype would be the “ foundation” …but you need at least two animals that show that exact same combination of alleles. This also reminds me of the debates that go on within the Red foot / Cherry community . And everyone trying to
“ name stake “ the exact local.
I never bought into it .. and I still don’t …there are too many variances and mans intervention ..to be 100% “ local and species specific” . With time everything changes …………

 

[Yvonne G]

If I were in the market for a Galop, I would price them first and see what they were going for. No matter how much I wanted one, I wouldn't pay more that the going price. $5,000 seems a bit steep to me. In my opinion, if they're selling for, say, $3,500, then I'd buy that one instead of the 5K one.

 

[Jacqui]

Just curious what everyone's opinion would be on the pros and cons of buying a couple of galapagos tortoise hatchlings for $5,000 each.

For me, a con would be something called a divorce....

 

[Baoh]

I have seen Galapagos hatchlings that are already a few inches sell for $3,500 each, that is a much better deal. I would buy one for that price, but not for 5K.

Where?

 

[AustinASU]

Las Vegas exotic pets has them up for sale Baoh.

Also when your dealing with a large species like this and you are considering buying into it.....price of the tortoise shouldn't even come to mind at all. 5k is nothing compared to what you will spend on building the facility and managing upkeep....thats where worrying about price comes into hand, this goes for any species. Initial investments will always be petty when you consider the 80+yr minimal upkeep.

 

[cdmay]

This also reminds me of the debates that go on within the Red foot / Cherry community . And everyone trying to
“ name stake “ the exact local.
I never bought into it .. and I still don’t …there are too many variances and mans intervention ..to be 100% “ local and species specific” . With time everything changes …………

I think you're missing the point. While you may not 'buy into' the idea of locality specific populations, they clearly exist despite your opinion.
Do you think that the people at the Charles Darwin Research Center are fools for all the effort they go to keep each locality population separate? Even though everyone agrees that they came from the same ancestors and possess very similar DNA, they also recognize that each form has become unique and valuable in its own right.
I'd like to see you go down the the CDRC and tell Linda Cayot and the other staff members (while you're at it tell Peter Pritchard, Anders Rhodin and others) what a waste of time it is, and what buffoons they all are for trying to preserve those stupid unique populations of tortoises on those islands.
Same goes for the captive population of red-footed tortoises you mentioned. Lets just mix 'em all together! As Hillary Clinton would say, "What difference does it make?"

 

[Baoh]

Las Vegas exotic pets has them up for sale Baoh.

I asked about from where the $3500 ones can be obtained.

 

[AustinASU]

Ohh they don't have any availble this season for that price, but normally you will see them on kingsnake.com for 3500 every year....im guessing this year was a bad year for hatchling galops.

 

[Baoh]

Ohh they don't have any availble this season for that price, but normally you will see them on kingsnake.com for 3500 every year....im guessing this year was a bad year for hatchling galops.

Who are "they"?

 

[tortadise]

Ohh they don't have any availble this season for that price, but normally you will see them on kingsnake.com for 3500 every year....im guessing this year was a bad year for hatchling galops.

Who are "they"?

I agree. I stalk Kingsnake all day everyday. I have not seen any in the past 4-5 years posted on KS. Fife, and another private breeder in Florida are the only 2 successful this year that I have heard. Each marked 5k for their offspring. Again though its well worth it given that you so choose to take the plunge.

 

[Millerlite]

Yeah it's been awhile since I've seen them at 3500 they were a few years back or a few offer springs that were produced were just sold lower the. Normal, cuz these guys don't pop up to often, I haven't seen any hatchlings this year but I did see two adults, 21.5 thousand.... I emailed them asking if I can drive it to work?.... Lol but really seems like a cool species to work with If you have the funds and want a galap. Take the plunge! 5k
Can be scary but we are all here to help you out if needed


Check out my site and channel:
Www.tortoise-spot.webs.com
Www.youtube.com/tortoisespot

 

[Madkins007]

This also reminds me of the debates that go on within the Red foot / Cherry community . And everyone trying to
“ name stake “ the exact local.
I never bought into it .. and I still don’t …there are too many variances and mans intervention ..to be 100% “ local and species specific” . With time everything changes …………

[Mark's Note- somehow the coding got messed up. The above is from one of JD's posts. What follows is what CDMay said:]


I think you're missing the point. While you may not 'buy into' the idea of locality specific populations, they clearly exist despite your opinion.
Do you think that the people at the Charles Darwin Research Center are fools for all the effort they go to keep each locality population separate? Even though everyone agrees that they came from the same ancestors and possess very similar DNA, they also recognize that each form has become unique and valuable in its own right.
I'd like to see you go down the the CDRC and tell Linda Cayot and the other staff members (while you're at it tell Peter Pritchard, Anders Rhodin and others) what a waste of time it is, and what buffoons they all are for trying to preserve those stupid unique populations of tortoises on those islands.
Same goes for the captive population of red-footed tortoises you mentioned. Lets just mix 'em all together! As Hillary Clinton would say, "What difference does it make?"

I think it is interesting how every time they make a 'rule' about breeding, usually based on what they see in mammals and birds, they find that it gets broken in some other group. Russians and Hermanns are very different in a lot of ways and were broken into different genera, but can interbreed. The closet DNA relative to the red-footed is supposedly the hingeback, but I have not heard of any intergrades there.

I know a lot of people make the case that if some things CAN interbreed, we should let or encourage them. I think that is a fundamental mistake. When nature allows an intergrade, there are reasons it is happening and in the long term probably results in a stronger animal better suited to changing conditions- an evolutionary tool.

When humans do this, we end up with things like ligers that have no growth regulation gene, only a small handful of pure American bison (almost all American bison are cattle hybrids), and other unintended consequences. It would seem that the smart thing to do is protect gene lines as best we can.

Besides- if you don't know what type of Galap it is, how will you know the best care for it? As has been mentioned, this is a really fragmented group as far as that sort of thing goes.

 

[N2TORTS]

This also reminds me of the debates that go on within the Red foot / Cherry community . And everyone trying to
“ name stake “ the exact local.
I never bought into it .. and I still don’t …there are too many variances and mans intervention ..to be 100% “ local and species specific” . With time everything changes …………

I think you're missing the point. While you may not 'buy into' the idea of locality specific populations, they clearly exist despite your opinion.
Do you think that the people at the Charles Darwin Research Center are fools for all the effort they go to keep each locality population separate? Even though everyone agrees that they came from the same ancestors and possess very similar DNA, they also recognize that each form has become unique and valuable in its own right.
I'd like to see you go down the the CDRC and tell Linda Cayot and the other staff members (while you're at it tell Peter Pritchard, Anders Rhodin and others) what a waste of time it is, and what buffoons they all are for trying to preserve those stupid unique populations of tortoises on those islands.
Same goes for the captive population of red-footed tortoises you mentioned. Lets just mix 'em all together! As Hillary Clinton would say, "What difference does it make?"

Carl .... before jumping down my throat ...I have done plenty of research ... !
and you have no idea who I know ...matter of fact , most of the so called " native " species among the islands to date….are Hybrids/Sub-species with different “visual characteristics” and yes there are differences . The DNA testing has been very slim , and most classifications are based on actual collection local and or natural selection wild breed characteristics ( which does not prove much DNA wise ) .. anyway ,,you must have not read the article very well~ Check out the movie too

---

Fife was the producer of these and owns the Female ....Ken owns the male ... . For the last 5 years as Kelly mentioned ..most " captive" Glaps have been shooting blanks . There have been eggs laid , but none that I know of , hatched out. These are special little guys .
So Carl , Mark ......Ya think Fife .. knows this "species specific of these animals " ?

 

[cdmay]

Carl .... before jumping down my throat ...I have done plenty of research ... !
and you have no idea who I know ...matter of fact , most of the so called " native " species among the islands to date….are Hybrids/Sub-species with different “visual characteristics” and yes there are differences . The DNA testing has been very slim , and most classifications are based on actual collection local and or natural selection wild breed characteristics ( which does not prove much DNA wise ) .. anyway ,,you must have not read the article very well~ Check out the movie too

---

Fife was the producer of these and owns the Female ....Ken owns the male ... . For the last 5 years as Kelly mentioned ..most " captive" Glaps have been shooting blanks . There have been eggs laid , but none that I know of , hatched out. These are special little guys .
So Carl , Mark ......Ya think Fife .. knows this "species specific of these animals " ?

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Easy JD. Wasn't trying to jump down your throat but rather was responding to the not so subtle jab regarding the hesitation (or opposition) many of us have to what is becoming a disturbing trend in tortoise culture, namely the interbreeding of differing localities for the sole purpose of spreading mutations around. In the case of red-footed tortoises there has been some deliberate breeding of hypo, and or, albino animals to other races or populations simply for monetary gain. Or to see 'what they get'.
Many of the folks involved in this practice like to pretend that since all red-footed tortoises are technically the same species, that they can just close their eyes and mix everything together without guilt.
I was trying to bring out the fact that in the Galapagos Islands, where such things matter a great deal, the people involved there go to extreme lengths to ensure that any more man made mixing no longer takes place. In fact, they have neutered many adult animals who's origin is unclear. I think that means they are pretty serious.
As for research, I have read virtually everything written about Galapagos tortoises and have quite a library of papers. But I will admit that this means little... as does this ridiculous pronouncement: "...and you have no idea who I know"

The Fife's are knowledgeable breeders but what does this have to do with taxonomy? Are you implying that since they get viable hatchlings that they know more about taxonomy than everyone else? Huh?!
In actual fact, the reason that most Galapagos tortoises 'shoot blanks' is a result of many factors including poor husbandry, animals that are obese, animals that are kept in confines that are too small and on and on. It has just about zero to do with their origin or sub-specific identity.

My original point about paying a lot of money for Galapagos tortoises remains the same. If you're going to lay out a load of cash, at least try to know what you're getting in return. There is responsibility involved with keeping tortoises and especially when it comes to something as unique as Galapagos tortoises.

 

[N2TORTS]

This was pretty lame too Carl ....

"I'd like to see you go down the the CDRC and tell Linda Cayot and the other staff members (while you're at it tell Peter Pritchard, Anders Rhodin and others) what a waste of time it is, and what buffoons they all are for trying to preserve those stupid unique populations of tortoises on those islands.
Same goes for the captive population of red-footed tortoises you mentioned. Lets just mix 'em all together! As Hillary Clinton would say, "What difference does it make?" "

 

[EricIvins]

Carl .... before jumping down my throat ...I have done plenty of research ... !
and you have no idea who I know ...matter of fact , most of the so called " native " species among the islands to date….are Hybrids/Sub-species with different “visual characteristics” and yes there are differences . The DNA testing has been very slim , and most classifications are based on actual collection local and or natural selection wild breed characteristics ( which does not prove much DNA wise ) .. anyway ,,you must have not read the article very well~ Check out the movie too

---

Fife was the producer of these and owns the Female ....Ken owns the male ... . For the last 5 years as Kelly mentioned ..most " captive" Glaps have been shooting blanks . There have been eggs laid , but none that I know of , hatched out. These are special little guys .
So Carl , Mark ......Ya think Fife .. knows this "species specific of these animals " ?

---

---

---

Easy JD. Wasn't trying to jump down your throat but rather was responding to the not so subtle jab regarding the hesitation (or opposition) many of us have to what is becoming a disturbing trend in tortoise culture, namely the interbreeding of differing localities for the sole purpose of spreading mutations around. In the case of red-footed tortoises there has been some deliberate breeding of hypo, and or, albino animals to other races or populations simply for monetary gain. Or to see 'what they get'.
Many of the folks involved in this practice like to pretend that since all red-footed tortoises are technically the same species, that they can just close their eyes and mix everything together without guilt.
I was trying to bring out the fact that in the Galapagos Islands, where such things matter a great deal, the people involved there go to extreme lengths to ensure that any more man made mixing no longer takes place. In fact, they have neutered many adult animals who's origin is unclear. I think that means they are pretty serious.
As for research, I have read virtually everything written about Galapagos tortoises and have quite a library of papers. But I will admit that this means little... as does this ridiculous pronouncement: "...and you have no idea who I know"

The Fife's are knowledgeable breeders but what does this have to do with taxonomy? Are you implying that since they get viable hatchlings that they know more about taxonomy than everyone else? Huh?!
In actual fact, the reason that most Galapagos tortoises 'shoot blanks' is a result of many factors including poor husbandry, animals that are obese, animals that are kept in confines that are too small and on and on. It has just about zero to do with their origin or sub-specific identity.

My original point about paying a lot of money for Galapagos tortoises remains the same. If you're going to lay out a load of cash, at least try to know what you're getting in return. There is responsibility involved with keeping tortoises and especially when it comes to something as unique as Galapagos tortoises.

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I would think "anyone" who wants a hatchling Galop knows what they are getting into. No one is going to buy a $5000 Tortoise on a whim. Those that do know the state of Galops in captivity.

I think that anyone with the means to acquire a Galop should. Point blank. Same goes for an Aldabra, Radiated, or any other Tortoise they have not experienced.....

Seriously though - Who cares? Would I spend stupid money on a Galop? Yes I would. Do I have plans on spending stupid money on a Galop? Yes I do. I don't get why a question like this would be posed to a forum who's primary base is "Pet" owners who would never think to own a Galop in the first place. I'm surprised no one has posted the typical "I thought they were Illegal to keep" post yet......

 

[Bryan]

I am not going to pretend to know about Galapagos tortoises like many of you do, however hybridization is something that I am very familiar with. Sometimes when you take different populations of animals and breed them you can get sterile offspring, you can get very lopsided male or female offspring, you can make it easier for genetic barriers to be broken down due to animals now being more receptive to breeding with either parent species, etc. Just because science as we know it has not classified Redfoots into different subspecies or perhaps even species altogether it does not mean that we should just turn a blind eye to all of the differences that these animals have. I believe that Amazon Basin Yellowfoots aren't classified as different than regular Yellowfoots, yet anyone that sees the sheer size of the adults of both of these animals would know that their is a vast difference between them. I have seen a lot smaller differences in other animals specifically fish that classifies animals as being a different species or sub species. IMO we should look to keep stocks pure so that in time if/when they are determined to be distinct that they will still be intact instead of a hodge podge like the Galapagos tortoises are reported to be.

As for if I'd buy them for $5K? Surely not if they are potentially sterile and surely not unless I get all of a huge grocery stores left over produce! I could only imagine what a 500lb. Galapagos tortoise could eat in a day!

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I would think "anyone" who wants a hatchling Galop knows what they are getting into. No one is going to buy a $5000 Tortoise on a whim. Those that do know the state of Galops in captivity.

I think that anyone with the means to acquire a Galop should. Point blank. Same goes for an Aldabra, Radiated, or any other Tortoise they have not experienced.....

Seriously though - Who cares? Would I spend stupid money on a Galop? Yes I would. Do I have plans on spending stupid money on a Galop? Yes I do. I don't get why a question like this would be posed to a forum who's primary base is "Pet" owners who would never think to own a Galop in the first place. I'm surprised no one has posted the typical "I thought they were Illegal to keep" post yet......

I've come across people that do a lot dumber things in life than that TBH, they have the $ to burn and more often than not do just that.

 

[EricIvins]

I am not going to pretend to know about Galapagos tortoises like many of you do, however hybridization is something that I am very familiar with. Sometimes when you take different populations of animals and breed them you can get sterile offspring, you can get very lopsided male or female offspring, you can make it easier for genetic barriers to be broken down due to animals now being more receptive to breeding with either parent species, etc. Just because science as we know it has not classified Redfoots into different subspecies or perhaps even species altogether it does not mean that we should just turn a blind eye to all of the differences that these animals have. I believe that Amazon Basin Yellowfoots aren't classified as different than regular Yellowfoots, yet anyone that sees the sheer size of the adults of both of these animals would know that their is a vast difference between them. I have seen a lot smaller differences in other animals specifically fish that classifies animals as being a different species or sub species. IMO we should look to keep stocks pure so that in time if/when they are determined to be distinct that they will still be intact instead of a hodge podge like the Galapagos tortoises are reported to be.

As for if I'd buy them for $5K? Surely not if they are potentially sterile and surely not unless I get all of a huge grocery stores left over produce! I could only imagine what a 500lb. Galapagos tortoise could eat in a day!

---

I would think "anyone" who wants a hatchling Galop knows what they are getting into. No one is going to buy a $5000 Tortoise on a whim. Those that do know the state of Galops in captivity.

I think that anyone with the means to acquire a Galop should. Point blank. Same goes for an Aldabra, Radiated, or any other Tortoise they have not experienced.....

Seriously though - Who cares? Would I spend stupid money on a Galop? Yes I would. Do I have plans on spending stupid money on a Galop? Yes I do. I don't get why a question like this would be posed to a forum who's primary base is "Pet" owners who would never think to own a Galop in the first place. I'm surprised no one has posted the typical "I thought they were Illegal to keep" post yet......

I've come across people that do a lot dumber things in life than that TBH, they have the $ to burn and more often than not do just that.

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Knowing the literal handful of people that are actually producing Galops in the private sector, no, nobody is going to buy a $5000 Tortoise on impulse. That is the truth. These are Tortoises, not fancy hood ornaments.....