Your thoughts

[DoubleD1996!]

I find a lot of people get turtles and tortoises, as well as other animals from impulse. I myself am guilty of it, but I never get anything that's way over my head. For instance, I'd love to have a sulcata. I have the yard space, I can build fencing, but as of now, I have nowhere to put such a large tortoise during the winter. Sure I have a massive garage, but my dad's junk calls it home. I can build a shed , but as of now I don't have the finances to do so. Next month I plan on taking in a Hermann’s ? from an owner who purchased because she was dealing with something personal that effected her mental health (not my business to disclose). She's a great person and now she feels she doesn't have the confidence to care for Myrtle. She's done an excellent job in my opinion, but now she feels as if she needs better. In your opinion what are at least five things you feel people should do before getting a new tort or pet. Mine are:
1. Do your research. Learn as much as you can about the animal. From diet, possible health issues etc.
2. Will you be present? Are you a person that likes to travel a lot? Will someone knowledgeable be there when your away?
3. Self evaluation. We're all flawed, but do you know yours? Are you lazy, inconsistent? Etc
4. Do you have the finances? Can you feed everyday? Can you have money for those emergency vet visits? Will owning the animal be a financial burden.
5. Are you truly passionate? Are you fully committed to the animal and learning more?

 

[wellington]

I would have to say the same as you.
However, you have to keep in mind life happens. No one knows what tomorrow will bring.
I'd rather someone give up an animal then neglect it.

 

[DoubleD1996!]

I would have to say the same as you.
However, you have to keep in mind life happens. No one knows what tomorrow will bring.
I'd rather someone give up an animal then neglect it.

I'd second that

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I would have to say the same as you.
However, you have to keep in mind life happens. No one knows what tomorrow will bring.
I'd rather someone give up an animal then neglect it.

Yeah
I'd ad a "back up plan" in case of health issues or for some issue that might keep you from tending to the tortoise in the future. Either for a while or permanently.
Someone that your family know to contact in case you become unable to call yourself that can step in and become the new keeper.
Most baby tortoises can live at least 50 years. Some live MUCH longer. A lot can happen in that time.
I have a back up plan person and it's a fellow forum member.

 

[DoubleD1996!]

Yeah
I'd ad a "back up plan" in case of health issues or for some reason that might keep you from tending to the tortoise in the future.
Someone that your family know to contact in that case. If you become unable to call yourself. That can step in and become the new keeper.
Most baby tortoises can live at least 50 years. Some live MUCH longer. A lot can happen in that time.

That's a good one.

 

[Tom]

The four things that really chap my hide are:
1. "I don't have the space for that size enclosure."
2. "I can't afford that right now."
3. "I did research and..."
4. People who buy torts that are totally incompatible with their climate.

There is simply no excuse for 1 and 2. If you don't have the money or space for what a tortoise, or any other animal, needs then you should not have that animal. Period. End of story. I don't have the space or money to house an elephant in my house, so though I love elephants, I've not gone out and bought one. The reader can substitute a horse in this analogy if that makes it work better. SImialry, I hate it when people make their tortoise buying decision based on a few dollars one way or the other. We should all be looking for the healthiest animals possible. The correct diet, housing, hydration, and baby starting procedures should be the main factors in the decision on who and where to get a tortoise from. Even a $100 price difference is inconsequential for an animal that is going to live 100+ years and cost hundreds or thousands a year to house, heat and feed. The price of the tortoise is a drop in a very large bucket.

Number 3 is NOT the fault of the new tortoise keeper. They've tried to learn and do things right, and that is admirable and to be commended. My irritation is that most of the info is wrong, and its repeated everywhere. There is no way for a new keeper to know this, and it causes all sorts of terrible problems and frustrations.

I see number 4 over and over again, and it drives me crazy. Redfoot tortoises are awesome. I've always had a love for Manouria. The Indotestudo genus fascinates me and I'd love to work with them. Aldabras are pretty cool, though their pointy noses aren't my favorite. I'd love to have all of these. Know why I don't? Because I live in the high desert. Hot and dry all year. My climate is totally unsuitable for these species. I see people around me get them and once the animals have to go live outside as adults, they just don't do well. Likewise, I see sulcatas living in cramped sheds in climates with months of frozen temps, and its just wrong. They need room to roam. I wouldn't own a sulcata if I lived in New York, the same way I don't own a bunch of redfoots in my dry climate.

Having said all of that, my list would be:

1. The initial purchase price of the tortoise is unimportant. Buy the best started healthiest tortoise you can find. Who cares how much it costs? Its going to outlive you and your children. And maybe your grandchildren too.
2. If the purchase price of the tortoise seems daunting, then you are not in a financial position to be taking on a new animal. Tort care can get expensive even when everything goes right. Veterinarian services and costs have skyrocketed in recent years. If you can't afford to buy the tortoise, how are you going to afford hundreds or thousands in vet cost should anything ever go wrong?
3. Live in a lovely NY studio apartment? DON'T buy a sulcata!!! Look for a tortoise that fits within your space and is compatible with your climate. It seems most UK homes are small, short on space and much colder than the average US home in winter. This is no place for large tropical reptiles that need a lot of square footage to roam. I ask that people think about the eventual size and temperature needs of a favored species, and get one that is compatible with your budget, available space, and climate.
4. People should realize that the vast majority of tortoise care info found while doing "research" is going to be old, out-dated, based on incorrect assumptions, and wrong. This holds true for vets, pet shops, breeders and "experts". I can only hope they find us, or someone who knows what we know here.

 

[DoubleD1996!]

The four things that really chap my hide are:
1. "I don't have the space for that size enclosure."
2. "I can't afford that right now."
3. "I did research and..."
4. People who buy torts that are totally incompatible with their climate.

There is simply no excuse for 1 and 2. If you don't have the money or space for what a tortoise, or any other animal, needs then you should not have that animal. Period. End of story. I don't have the space or money to house an elephant in my house, so though I love elephants, I've not gone out and bought one. The reader can substitute a horse in this analogy if that makes it work better. SImialry, I hate it when people make their tortoise buying decision based on a few dollars one way or the other. We should all be looking for the healthiest animals possible. The correct diet, housing, hydration, and baby starting procedures should be the main factors in the decision on who and where to get a tortoise from. Even a $100 price difference is inconsequential for an animal that is going to live 100+ years and cost hundreds or thousands a year to house, heat and feed. The price of the tortoise is a drop in a very large bucket.

Number 3 is NOT the fault of the new tortoise keeper. They've tried to learn and do things right, and that is admirable and to be commended. My irritation is that most of the info is wrong, and its repeated everywhere. There is no way for a new keeper to know this, and it causes all sorts of terrible problems and frustrations.

I see number 4 over and over again, and it drives me crazy. Redfoot tortoises are awesome. I've always had a love for Manouria. The Indotestudo genus fascinates me and I'd love to work with them. Aldabras are pretty cool, though their pointy noses aren't my favorite. I'd love to have all of these. Know why I don't? Because I live in the high desert. Hot and dry all year. My climate is totally unsuitable for these species. I see people around me get them and once the animals have to go live outside as adults, they just don't do well. Likewise, I see sulcatas living in cramped sheds in climates with months of frozen temps, and its just wrong. They need room to roam. I wouldn't own a sulcata if I lived in New York, the same way I don't own a bunch of redfoots in my dry climate.

Having said all of that, my list would be:

1. The initial purchase price of the tortoise is unimportant. Buy the best started healthiest tortoise you can find. Who cares how much it costs? Its going to outlive you and your children. And maybe your grandchildren too.
2. If the purchase price of the tortoise seems daunting, then you are not in a financial position to be taking on a new animal. Tort care can get expensive even when everything goes right. Veterinarian services and costs have skyrocketed in recent years. If you can't afford to buy the tortoise, how are you going to afford hundreds or thousands in vet cost should anything ever go wrong?
3. Live in a lovely NY studio apartment? DON'T buy a sulcata!!! Look for a tortoise that fits within your space and is compatible with your climate. It seems most UK homes are small, short on space and much colder than the average US home in winter. This is no place for large tropical reptiles that need a lot of square footage to roam. I ask that people think about the eventual size and temperature needs of a favored species, and get one that is compatible with your budget, available space, and climate.
4. People should realize that the vast majority of tortoise care info found while doing "research" is going to be old, out-dated, based on incorrect assumptions, and wrong. This holds true for vets, pet shops, breeders and "experts". I can only hope they find us, or someone who knows what we know here.

Well said.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

The four things that really chap my hide are:
1. "I don't have the space for that size enclosure."
2. "I can't afford that right now."
3. "I did research and..."
4. People who buy torts that are totally incompatible with their climate.

There is simply no excuse for 1 and 2. If you don't have the money or space for what a tortoise, or any other animal, needs then you should not have that animal. Period. End of story. I don't have the space or money to house an elephant in my house, so though I love elephants, I've not gone out and bought one. The reader can substitute a horse in this analogy if that makes it work better. SImialry, I hate it when people make their tortoise buying decision based on a few dollars one way or the other. We should all be looking for the healthiest animals possible. The correct diet, housing, hydration, and baby starting procedures should be the main factors in the decision on who and where to get a tortoise from. Even a $100 price difference is inconsequential for an animal that is going to live 100+ years and cost hundreds or thousands a year to house, heat and feed. The price of the tortoise is a drop in a very large bucket.

Number 3 is NOT the fault of the new tortoise keeper. They've tried to learn and do things right, and that is admirable and to be commended. My irritation is that most of the info is wrong, and its repeated everywhere. There is no way for a new keeper to know this, and it causes all sorts of terrible problems and frustrations.

I see number 4 over and over again, and it drives me crazy. Redfoot tortoises are awesome. I've always had a love for Manouria. The Indotestudo genus fascinates me and I'd love to work with them. Aldabras are pretty cool, though their pointy noses aren't my favorite. I'd love to have all of these. Know why I don't? Because I live in the high desert. Hot and dry all year. My climate is totally unsuitable for these species. I see people around me get them and once the animals have to go live outside as adults, they just don't do well. Likewise, I see sulcatas living in cramped sheds in climates with months of frozen temps, and its just wrong. They need room to roam. I wouldn't own a sulcata if I lived in New York, the same way I don't own a bunch of redfoots in my dry climate.

Having said all of that, my list would be:

1. The initial purchase price of the tortoise is unimportant. Buy the best started healthiest tortoise you can find. Who cares how much it costs? Its going to outlive you and your children. And maybe your grandchildren too.
2. If the purchase price of the tortoise seems daunting, then you are not in a financial position to be taking on a new animal. Tort care can get expensive even when everything goes right. Veterinarian services and costs have skyrocketed in recent years. If you can't afford to buy the tortoise, how are you going to afford hundreds or thousands in vet cost should anything ever go wrong?
3. Live in a lovely NY studio apartment? DON'T buy a sulcata!!! Look for a tortoise that fits within your space and is compatible with your climate. It seems most UK homes are small, short on space and much colder than the average US home in winter. This is no place for large tropical reptiles that need a lot of square footage to roam. I ask that people think about the eventual size and temperature needs of a favored species, and get one that is compatible with your budget, available space, and climate.
4. People should realize that the vast majority of tortoise care info found while doing "research" is going to be old, out-dated, based on incorrect assumptions, and wrong. This holds true for vets, pet shops, breeders and "experts". I can only hope they find us, or someone who knows what we know here.

Very well done

 

[Noelluene]

I totally agree. Some people don't realize how big of a commitment taking care of animal is. Turtles and tortoises are not "cheap pets" and do not "stay small"!!!

 

[DoubleD1996!]

I totally agree. Some people don't realize how big of a commitment taking care of animal is. Turtles and tortoises are not "cheap pets" and do not "stay small"!!!

Right

 

[TheLastGreen]

Yes! Yes! Yes! You said it @DoubleD1996! ! If you get a tort, you are responsible to give it the best possible care you know and possibly can. We are torts "mother nature". We control the temps, food and habitat. We are the deciding factor if they thrive or suffer. Torts aren't like dogs or cats, the same dog that can survive in South Africa can easily survive in Siberia. (Gross simplification). Torts are highly specialised for certain climates etc. My hingeback comes from a coastal region (he should have been left there, but was unknowingly brought to a savannah climate), I have to replicate the same environment i.e. humidity, diet, light levels, substrate and once more temperatures (which I love to do, it's facinating), but people often times don't simply know how much care these animals need, they buy a sulcata, and keep them too dry for instance, and the best part is, they do that because people say:"Hey, sulcatas are easy to take care of," sure because they can eat lots of things, can adapt to warmer climates, but they still need care, and they grow! Often times these margins are slight, and people just don't realise it

 

[jeff kushner]

Sometimes, the worst situations comes from the best intentions married to ignorance.

I will enlighten few here by telling you guys that I've always been dangerously impulsive. Most of my exotics were decided on impulse back in the 70's...........(Tom now hates me....<LOL>....teasing of course). Somehow I managed to find enough materials in the reference section of the Enoch Pratt library and a few phone calls to zoos that they all managed and I was educated enough to get them alive. Was it perfect or even humane? Good questions.....

but no one here is going to change folks BEFORE they get to the forum but we've all seen many, many people helped here because the new person acted like adults and didn't get twisted when someone razed their bottom over some aspect of given care.

With our Instant Grat world we are now living in, I would guess that most newbie owners are mpulse decisions, whether they admit it or not. ....just my guess, but my guesses do carry a tiny bit of credibility.....at work, I get paid to guess so someone must feel there's some level of validity(Truth is, I just make sh-t sound good-shhh).

The only ones that bother me are the turtles poorly kept by the "if you don't give me the affirmation I seek, I will leave and go elsewhere till they do". Those are the MSM-trained, that think a box turtle is a tortoise that can live in desert conditions so it ends up living in a dry box with a light too far away to warm and a bowl of black moldy water.

 

[Maggie3fan]

@Tom...in a perfect world.
Most people would say "that's not me" but I am exactly the person you just now talked about. I moved from great Sulcata weather in California to snow in Oregon without a thought about the Sulcata or the desert type tortoises I brought with m, being "happy". I am an impulse buyer...the kitten is cute, buy it. Another parakeet? Yep, because I want a white one. And on and on and I know better. So think about Susie Creamcheese who gets the stimulus money and buys another animal. My bigger tortoises are housed perfectly, but the pens are just ok. So if I know better... what about the average citizen who says we are not talking about them? This last trip to my sister's house was the first time in memory I didn't bring back something that needs to be fed. I see something cute, I ask for it and she always says yes. Well, except for the Chaco, Texas, Radiated, maybe she says no more often than I think...lol
my point being we need to find a way to make newbies understand we ARE talking about them. (or me)

 

[TheLastGreen]

I totally agree with the point on impulsiveness. In Afrikaans we have a saying :"As dit pap reën moet jy skep." (If it rains porridge you have to scoop some.)
We all are impulsive, we all have that strain of "to scoop porridge", even more when we love the animal type we want, because we then feel, hell, we can take one now, and make things better later. I think, with torts, people don't realise the care they need, most people get a tort and realise... it isn't flourishing, and then they find the forum, so I think it is a underestimation to some degree, (I'm not sure about other reptiles, but I know that bearded dragons and leopard geckos are quite easy to look after, they don't roam, and like to bask, eat and sleep. Torts do the same... but just a little different, and I think it's that "little" that attracts people, and it's that which they don't understand)

 

[Maggie3fan]

I totally agree with the point on impulsiveness. In Afrikaans we have a saying :"As dit pap reën moet jy skep." (If it rains porridge you have to scoop some.)
We all are impulsive, we all have that strain of "to scoop porridge", even more when we love the animal type we want, because we then feel, hell, we can take one now, and make things better later. I think, with torts, people don't realise the care they need, most people get a tort and realise... it isn't flourishing, and then they find the forum, so I think it is a underestimation to some degree, (I'm not sure about other reptiles, but I know that bearded dragons and leopard geckos are quite easy to look after, they don't roam, and like to bask, eat and sleep. Torts do the same... but just a little different, and I think it's that "little" that attracts people, and it's that which they don't understand)

Just because "we are all impulsive" doesn't make it right. I always read any thread that has Sulcata problems but I generally come on later than Y and Tom especially ZenHerper so I always read what those 3 say...and all the sudden I am starting to see a trend? They are saying about how tough Sulcata are as a whole species...they generally live thru crappy care...I'm always real proud of my tort shed but are the Sulcata I raise suffering because I chose to keep them in a snow zone?


The local Wildlife shelter called me because they don't do tortoises. I'm thinking I've had her for 3-4 years, it's kinda hard to find a home for someone like Mary K

 

[DoubleD1996!]

I totally agree with the point on impulsiveness. In Afrikaans we have a saying :"As dit pap reën moet jy skep." (If it rains porridge you have to scoop some.)
We all are impulsive, we all have that strain of "to scoop porridge", even more when we love the animal type we want, because we then feel, hell, we can take one now, and make things better later. I think, with torts, people don't realise the care they need, most people get a tort and realise... it isn't flourishing, and then they find the forum, so I think it is a underestimation to some degree, (I'm not sure about other reptiles, but I know that bearded dragons and leopard geckos are quite easy to look after, they don't roam, and like to bask, eat and sleep. Torts do the same... but just a little different, and I think it's that "little" that attracts people, and it's that which they don't understand)

That was deeper than poetry. I like that saying. Well said.

 

[DoubleD1996!]

Just because "we are all impulsive" doesn't make it right. I always read any thread that has Sulcata problems but I generally come on later than Y and Tom especially ZenHerper so I always read what those 3 say...and all the sudden I am starting to see a trend? They are saying about how tough Sulcata are as a whole species...they generally live thru crappy care...I'm always real proud of my tort shed but are the Sulcata I raise suffering because I chose to keep them in a snow zone?
View attachment 337100
View attachment 337106View attachment 337104
View attachment 337106The local Wildlife shelter called me because they don't do tortoises. I'm thinking I've had her for 3-4 years, it's kinda hard to find a home for someone like Mary K

She seems like a handful

 

[DoubleD1996!]

TheLastGreen,
Nah, you can say whatever you want. I agree.

 

[jeff kushner]

She seems like a handful

The Tort or Maggie? BOTH???

LOL...sorry Mags, I couldn't help myself when I read this:

"So think about Susie Creamcheese who gets the stimulus money and buys another animal. "

Nearly spit my coffee out on the monitor!

 

[Maggie3fan]

I'm thinkin you all don't know me very well...or maybe too [email protected] funny and I loved it...The Last Green, very poetic and thank you. I am not easy to offend and his was really good. So thank You for understand just how this bitchy woman can be, and at times empathetic and understanding...ta da.